Quote:Twenty-six years after the Supreme Court's Roe v. Wade decision, the public debate on abortion seems to have reached a stalemate. The issue continues to be debated in Congress and state legislatures across the country, but, year to year, there seems to be little change in public opinion. This does not mean, however, that the abortion issue is going to recede in intensity any time soon. There are many reasons for this, but perhaps the most important is simply that "the majority of Americans morally disapprove of the majority of abortions currently performed," as University of Virginia sociologist James Hunter concludes in his path-breaking 1994 book, Before the Shooting Begins: Searching for Democracy in America's Culture Wars. Hunter's analysis is based on the 1991 Gallup poll "Abortion and Moral Beliefs," the most thorough survey of American attitudes toward abortion yet conducted. The Gallup study found that 77 percent of Americans believe that abortion is at least the "taking of human life" (28 percent), if not "murder" itself (49 percent). Other polls confirm these findings. And yet, while many Americans—perhaps 60 percent in the middle—see legalized abortion as an evil, they see it as "necessary."

The Chicago Tribune aptly summarized the situation in a September 1996 editorial: "Most Americans are uncomfortable with all-or-nothing policies on abortion. They generally shy away from proposals to ban it in virtually all circumstances, but neither are they inclined to make it available on demand no matter what the circumstances. They regard it, at best, as a necessary evil."

Quote:Jeremiah 1:5  Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Quote:Pictures and video from the new technology show that an unborn baby can stretch, kick and leap around the womb much earlier than had previously been thought.

Quote:They show the stretches, yawns, even smiles and frowns,

Quote:2Samuel 12:22  And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who knoweth whether Jehovah will not be gracious to me, that the child may live?
2Samuel 12:23  But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me.

Quote:Matthew 18:6  But whoso shall cause one of these little ones that believe on me to stumble, it is profitable for him that a great millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be sunk in the depth of the sea.

Quote:Proverbs 3:5  Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Quote:Pro-Abortion Madness
The abortion lobby has abandoned its rationales amid pro-life gains.
By Ted Olsen | posted 08/17/2004 9:30 a.m.


Activists on both sides of the ###### marriage debate "have begun to speak of the issue as 'the new abortion'," The Washington Post reports. But what ever happened to the old abortion? As it turns out, the past few months have seen extraordinary progress for the unborn, with abortion supporters looking more desperate than ever.

The international front is full of good news. China is outlawing sex determination and sex-selective abortion, aiming to fix its gender imbalance by 2010. On the other side of the international political spectrum, the Netherlands has tethered its infamous abortion ship.

Meanwhile, Britain is engaged in a soul-searching moment. First came the release of images from the new 3D/4D ultrasound scans—one shows a 12-week-old child "walking" in its mother's womb. Then came the shocking news of the abortion rate (up 3.2 percent from 2002), "cosmetic" abortions (at least a dozen babies have been aborted for cleft lips and palates, in probable violation of British law), and medical advances. The author of Britain's 1967 Abortion Act, David Steel, said the law wrongly assumes fetuses can't survive outside the womb before 28 weeks. "Since then," he wrote in The Guardian newspaper, "medical science has continued to advance, recording survivals at 22 weeks of pregnancy." In 1990, British pro-life groups pushed to move the law back to 22 weeks, but got 24. Now Steel wants it halved, to 12.

Viability supposedly matters here as well. World magazine recently reported, "Forty states and the District of Columbia have post-viability abortion bans that are currently enforceable." Many of these state laws define viability too late: between 24 and 26 weeks. But in December, when Sen. Joseph Lieberman noted that the laws no longer reflect "extraordinary advances in medical science," he was condemned for eroding "choice."

Abortion advocates are increasingly abandoning science. "For a long time now, medicine has assumed too much importance in the abortion debate," Marina Benjamin wrote in The Scotsman. "If medical advances keep lowering the bar, we'll soon be faced with a situation where socially motivated abortions are legally discriminated against."

But people seem fine with that. A January poll showed that 43 percent of Democrats believe abortion "destroys a human life and is manslaughter." Those numbers will keep growing due to what The Wall Street Journal calls The Roe Effect: Pro-lifers can pass their values on to their children; those who abort their children can't. Another good sign: Anti-abortion demonstrations are getting younger.

Little wonder, then, that Sen. John Kerry touted that he too believes that life (though not necessarily personhood) begins at conception and that abortion is an "incredibly important moral issue."

For Kerry, the basis for keeping abortion legal isn't based in science but in the "separation of church and state." The change of rationale could be great news. It's no Herculean task to explain why banning abortion doesn't establish a government religion.

But abortion advocates aren't rallying to Kerry's view of conception, so they're not arguing church-state separation, either. In summary, they have lost ground on science, emotional appeals, constitutional law … What's left?

Insanity. Meet Amy Richards, whose "When One is Enough" article in The New York Times Magazine told of how she unregretfully aborted two of her triplets because it would mean "shopping only at Costco and buying big jars of mayonnaise." Without the abortions, she exclaimed, "I'd have to give up my life!" That life is one where she's a Planned Parenthood leader, a consultant to Gloria Steinem, and founder of the Third Wave Foundation, which funds abortions. She's also one of the brains behind Planned Parenthood T-shirts that proudly proclaim, "I had an abortion."

Richards's article and those shirts have outraged even Planned Parenthood affiliates, but make no mistake: This is the direction that the movement is headed. Within days of the triplets article, the Times published another article on abortion. This time, Barbara Ehrenreich savaged women who regret their abortions or oppose those "socially motivated abortions" Benjamin was talking about. "Time to take your thumbs out of your mouths, ladies, and speak up for your rights," she said.

Not exactly the textbook method for winning hearts and minds. No wonder the tide is turning.

GRITS,Aug 18 2004, 05:28 PM Wrote:Reading the scriptures it appears as if abortion is a way of returning the child to a loving God who "knew thee" before he was placed in the womb and maybe that is the way it was meant to be....God wants that particular individual to be back with him quickly in the arms of someone who will love and nuture them, so he choses a woman who choses to end the pregnancy, who are we to make that judgement on a decision made sometimes in haste but sometimes after much deliberation and prayers, you may take issue with what Judas did, but it was preordained and while I can not quote scriptures, I do recall it was "God's will". I am not arrogant enough to think that I know "what" God wants for me much less others....all decisions in our lives should be contemplated and for those who are of religious intent the contemplation should come with sincere prayers...then the decisions made are those that God has helped you make even if they don't fit perfectly in the morals of man

Quote:......(I can't say it's murder because that references Judeo-Christian law and anything dealing with morals is higher being related)....

evil_admin,Aug 18 2004, 07:12 PM Wrote:

Quote:......(I can't say it's murder because that references Judeo-Christian law and anything dealing with morals is higher being related)....

In case you were not aware...morals do not come only from Judism and Christianity. Plenty of non-Christians and even atheists have morals.

Quote:If a 14 year old girl is raped by her mentally handi-capped uncle, would you expect her to keep this child?

Quote:it's bad because it harms the woman mentally by filling her with tremendous guilt later down the road and in many cases, physically harming the woman and preventing pregnancy later.

Quote:However, it is up to God to determine when and how a child is to return to Him, not us

Quote:PS. Frito....father to father, take a look at your healthy beautiful boy you got (Lil Frito). If you feel for your kids like me, you
probably can't imagine that kid not being around and saddens you to think about it. Now reverse the clock all the way back
to when he was that little 'parasite' in the womb. He's still the same person dude....honestly, he is. Just because he isn't into
CS and skateboards yet doesn't make him any different. I know you love that boy like I love mine. When you put it in that perspective,
do you think of that 'parasite' as a non-creature? That's YOUR gift. I love ya bro.

Quote:Freefall...how often would the following situation come into fruition (spell) :

Quote:If a 14 year old girl is raped by her mentally handi-capped uncle, would you expect her to keep this child?

Would you NOT know that in 14 years of this girl's life that your mentally handicapped uncle would have the propensity to sexually attack a minor? Unless it is one of those 'When Animals Attack" things.

If it was my daughter, I would pray my guts out and ask for direction from God. Prayer does work.

Quote:Actually this is a private board that is open to the public. If we ask that you not preach here then you need to respect that.

Quote:1.Abortion happens while the baby isn't cognizant.

Quote:One last thing Freefall. I have to raise one point on your comment QUOTE 
1.Abortion happens while the baby isn't cognizant.

Does this mean it's ok to kill someone who is sleeping or under sedation?