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The USA Patriot Act - Wanksta - 01-15-2004
I just finished my paper and here it is:
The USA Patriot Act
Opening Statement
The USA Patriot Act passed on October 24, 2001, to provide a stronger defense against terrorism. Under closer study of the bill it is revealed to be no more than a sheet to cover up an overestimation and a lack of action from the US government. The USA Patriot Act was passed in a fearful response to the September 11th attacks on the World Trade Center Towers in New York City. The government was scared when the terrorists are not after the people but after them. This act does good for the people but it does even more harm. People in this country do not like being watched and in a response to that the people will revolt.
This bill I agree will help our country but will cause our people to panic and riot against this. It causes discontent among the people and that leads to the hate of our government, to the hate of our country and what itâs supposed to stand for, and eventually the cultural downfall of our great country.
âMany of the new security measures proposed by our government in the name of fighting the "war on terror" are not temporary. They are permanent changes to our laws. Even the measures that, on the surface, appear to have been adopted only as long as the war on terror lasts could be with us indefinitely. Because, as Homeland Security director Tom Ridge himself has warned, terrorism is a "permanent condition to which America must . . . adjust." âAmerican Civil Liberties Union, January 29
Terrorism is a permanent thing that will remain with us as the scar that was imprinted on us all with the 9-11 attacks but what we do about it is not panic, but develop a decision. The main idea of terrorism not to destroy us but instead slowly decay our people with fear and tear at us with Malice of unreal proportions. The people think it is the government that is destroying it but it is the terror and violence. The people of our country do not realize this so they riot and protest in the streets. Terror is not to destroy our nation but to drive fear into us like a stake in the ground. The thing that our people want is to be happy. An unruly bill taking away our privacy cannot reach this. This is the 21st century and these terror organizations use encrypted channels that cannot be deciphered.
âIt is not just the judicial branch of government which oversees the application of Section 215. Section 215 also provides for congressional oversight of demands for records pursuant to the provisions of the Patriot Act. As noted correctly by Mr. Ayoub, the Department of Justice has recently reported that, to date, the FBI has used Section 215 "exactly zero times." That hardly represents a wholesale onslaught on the civil liberties of American citizens.â
Why donât the people of our country have a say in this act? This act is supposed to be to ensure liberty to the people in the USA. The fact is people donât like being watched and their privacy violated.
It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
â Abraham Lincoln,
â Taken From âThe Gettysburg Addressâ
Tell me what you guys think. I am not for the patriot act myself though.
The USA Patriot Act - Wha? - 01-16-2004
One has to wonder how well thought out the act is. Unless I'm unaware of some crucial clause, the whole idea is about as air tight as a condom in a meat grinder. Unless real terrorists use unencrypted electronic communications and have acute Bond Villain Syndrome, monitoring normal chat channels for key words and phrases would only waste time and money. Nobody who's part of an organized plot to blow up a lot of people is going to explicitly state they will in an email to somebody, let alone explain how, and where (which is about the only way the authorities would have to track somebody down if they didn't use a pc in their home).
Hell, even the 80's knew that. I saw an episode of The A-Team today where they told eachother the type of mission they were gonna be on, where it was going down, and who should do what, just with a call to a radio talk show. Did they say what it was explicitly? Or even use a single word that might arouse suspicion (like "mission" or "explosion")? Nope. So what is it about literal string checks that makes people feel secure? If I was gonna blow stuff up with a posse of like-minded psychopaths, I would get them to join me for an evening movie, dinner, or perhaps a pint at a pub. Does that set off alarm bells for any of you? Didn't think so. The plans would be brought up, but nobody would hear them because of the high ambient noise level. I didn't even have to send encrypted messages or blatently obvious code words.
I also don't see how you can keep dissent down except from fear of retaliation, simply by mentioning this act exists, and is being used.
The USA Patriot Act - [CAKE]anonymity - 01-16-2004
I think you touched on this wank, but the act really shows that the US is fearing terrorism, and thats what they want. These security measures can only be in place in the US (keyword searches that wha mention earlier), and yet all the terrorist groups the US has singled out are not American.
According to the US department of justice the homocide rate is 5.5 per 100,000 people in 2000 (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/hmrt.htm). According to the US beruea of the census projected to jan 16 the population is 292,392,203 (http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/popclock). I divided the population by 100,000 then multiplied by 5.5. I got 16,081 as the amount of people who were murdered. Compared to 9-11 which killed over 3 000. If you ask me the US should be more concerned with that.
The USA Patriot Act - Guest - 01-16-2004
9/11 was just a wake up call to what could come. How many people do you think could be murdered by
a release of Smallpox or Anthrax in a large metropolitan city? 20,000? 100,000? How many people could
be killed by exploding a dirty bomb in downtown Chicago? Tens of thousands over a year of exposure??
How little does factoring in 16,000 people murdered a year compare to what could come from a small group
of these little pricks sneaking in and doing their work.
These are desperate times here in the US. They require desperate measures. I don't think ANYONE is inconvienced
by the Patriot Act nor are their civil rights violated. Sure a lot of Muslums and Arabs here are 'targeted' for
suspicions but I don't see to many OTHER people blowing up airplanes across the world or wearing Simtec jackets
blowing up Cafes. If they don't like it...they need to fix their errors, or else we'll fix it for them. I wouldn't lose one
second of sleep if someone nuked Lybia, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebenon, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan or Pakistan.
DAMN...I guess I'm just anti-Muslum when it comes down to it. I'd like to send em all to visit Allah.
The USA Patriot Act - [CAKE]anonymity - 01-16-2004
Well first of all, these are Americans killing Americans, if American is all able to solve other peoples probems, dont you think they could solve their own?
What happens if they get their hands on something powerful, many people thought the oklahoma city bombing wasnt done by an American.
The USA Patriot Act - Wha? - 01-17-2004
But don't you see? Innocent people have nothing to hide, no reason to bother themselves with goings on outside their own little bubble. Why would they need to care if they can no longer express opinions other than the government sanctioned ones? It's not like anything but the right to bear arms (even if it isn't in the defense of the nation) is really important anyway... freedom of speech and religion are for hippies and liberals.. real people agree with their president and are caucasian males of moderate or greater social status.
It's just too bad these desperate times call for neglect of domestic issues, but I suppose with all those troops overseas and commited itelligence personel, there just isn't enough manpower to take care of them. After all, no other organizations exist to take care of those problems, and they aren't exactly big numbers. What's sixteen thousand individuals with families and friends compared to a million hypothetical people, when you can only pick one. Murder or terrorism, it's a boolean choice.
The USA Patriot Act - Wanksta - 01-17-2004
Thats the thing. How many americans are really innocent? The people want to be happy and the act hasnt even worked yet.
The USA Patriot Act - Guest - 01-17-2004
Has their been another terrorist act here in the US since 2001?
Seems to me that the majority of the population is pretty happy about that.
Most of the people who attack the Act are not really anti Patriot Act....they
are anti-Bush.
If Ted Kennedy was president and he proposed it....it would have been the ultimate act
of kindness to all Americans. Janet Reno would have gotten the govt's full support as
well as the press.
Quote:freedom of speech and religion are for hippies and liberals
Since when did those people care about RELIGION??? or Freedom of ANYTHING??? Liberals have
hog tied our 'FREEDOMS' so much with PC bullshoot and laws, that those freedoms don't exist anymore.
The USA Patriot Act - [CAKE]anonymity - 01-17-2004
How often do large terrorist attacks happen on the US anyway, I'd say about once every 10 or 8 years. Its just a little over 3 since 9-11.
When was the last terrorist attack that was done on the US that wasnt by an American anyhow? (before 9-11)
The USA Patriot Act - GRITS - 01-17-2004
Keep in mind all terrorist attacks 'on the US' dont have to be done "IN" the US
The USA Patriot Act - Guest - 01-17-2004
But how many terrorist acts have been botched that we don't know of? How many in the last
3 years have been busted by the efforts of the FBI, CIA and police departments by utilizing the
tools and laws now available to them, such as the Patriot Act. If we removed the tools like the
Patriot Act and something DID happen to the US, then EVERYONE would be saying the the government
didn't do enough. It's a bitter back and forth battle in politics where no one seems to win.
It's like putting a fence around your entire house where no one can get in or over. People say that fence
is offensive and stupid, and that no one has broke into your house. But how many people have been diverted away
from breaking in since seeing the fence? You will never know, but your sense of security is strong with it
regardless.
Why are foreigners to the US taking offense to something that is to protect the US?
The USA Patriot Act - kermit - 01-17-2004
probably cause they don't want the US to be protected. i think most foreigners probably felt somewhat smug about 9-11.
The USA Patriot Act - Guest - 01-17-2004
i agree...
The USA Patriot Act - [CAKE]anonymity - 01-18-2004
I cant speak for the reactions in other countries, but i know the reaction in ours was of pure shock, I personally couldnt believe it was happening as with all of the people I encountered. It was the first time in my lifetime, every single store, was listening to the same thing on the radio, or all the electronic stores had it on their TV's. The stores who would kick us out for loitering would invite us in to watch the latest news of it. My mom was flying to chicago that day, she landed a few hours before the attacks and her hotel was on the same block as the sears tower, which was one of the buildings they were worried about.
Terrorism and special forces are euphemisms. They are both two groups enforceing their political agendas through violence. Thats what really bugs me, I learned at a very young age that two wrongs dont make a right.
The USA Patriot Act - Wha? - 01-18-2004
Hmm... could it be other people care and don't want to see others subjugated and starved of basic human rights? Nah, couldn't be. Who would do that but americans? They're the only people who live in a free country and have a concept of freedom and rights.
The USA Patriot Act - evil_admin - 01-18-2004
Americans, for the most part and especially the conservatives, believe America is responsible for all the good in the world and responsible for ridding the bad in the world. Our current political administration is a good example. If countries don't want to live the way we think they should, we invade them. If other democratic countries disagree with us, we penalize them and don't let them 'play' until they get back in line.
As for the Patriot Act, there is a real need to take terrorist threats as real....should have been done years ago but it wasn't. However the Patriot Act is a smokescreen for limiting civil rights that Republicans and conservatives have wanted for years. In the 60s Republicans were against civil rights for blacks...today they claim they were for it the whole time. The fundamentalist churches spout how the only christians that fought against slavery were themselves. They ignore how close they are to the KKK and how religious the members of the KKK have been throughout history.
Holding American citizen 'suspects' indefinitely without access to council is against the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The government is getting away with it because the public believes we would be in danger of terrorist attack if it wasn't happening.
The good/bad news is that like the 50s, 60s and other historical times, the government will overstep their bounds and make a mistake. Something bad will happen, the government will be embarassed and/or try to hide what they did, there will be a massive, albeit slow, investigation in order to give current guilty office-holders time to exit gracefully and the new political machine will utterly denounce what was done and we will start again.
If that wasn't enough to stir up the right-wing on the forums, consider this:
Thomas Jefferson stated that the 2nd amendment, the one the NRA and gun lovers embrace, was in place only for the use of a national militia. It seems the need for a citizen militia is outmoded since we have the most powerful military in the world.
-A card carrying ACLU member, liberal and civil rights activist
evil_admin
The USA Patriot Act - Guest - 01-18-2004
what about George McGovern....the Democratic candidate for president....Mr segregation....and Senator Robert KKK Byrd...a card carying member
of the KKK???? Let's don't leave those Democrats out of the agenda over the last 40 years. If Clinton would have proposed this Act, the liberals would
have bowed to his knees. If Clinton would have invaded Iraq....they would have sang his praises in Hollywood. Don't give me that 'agenda' crap. Liberals
will despise ANYTHING Bush and the Republicans do for the extension of his term.
The USA Patriot Act - evil_admin - 01-18-2004
Republicans & conservatives like to think they are the underdog and discriminated against, even when they have the majority of congress and the presidency. They want their cake and eat it too.
The USA Patriot Act - [CAKE]anonymity - 01-18-2004
If they are discriminated against they get sympathy. Sympathy would mean votes. Now all they have to do is let the propaganda do the work.
The USA Patriot Act - Guest - 01-19-2004
And how many LONG years have they had this 'majority' ? Why would voters put
Republicans in office substituting long standing Democratic positions? Could it be
that the public was sick of the liberal 'agenda' for all these years? The lies, the deceit?
I wouldn't call the people in office now the 'underdog' and I doubt they feel they are
seeing that's what the public wanted. The powerful media gives the illusion that Republicans
are in the minority and that the public doesn't like what they do and are doing. I bet
the Republicans eat a lot more cake at the end of this year when the sympathetic public
elects a Conservative to the White House AGAIN. Save me a slice please.
And Anon, the propaganda you speak of has to filter through the biased media first. It ain't
gonna happen. Dan Rather and Tom Brokov aren't gonna let it.
The USA Patriot Act - [CAKE]anonymity - 01-19-2004
Politicians have been useing propaganda for the longest of times, ever since democracy apperaed and they tried to change the opinions of the voters. The media does a horrible job in filtering out what politicians do, how long did they go on about Bush not eating a pretzel propperly?
The USA Patriot Act - Wha? - 01-19-2004
A There are idiots and bigots in every party
B) There are good people in every party
C) A minority is not representative of the majority, by definition
D) All parties have agendas
E) Though a party may have an agenda, it isn't cause for paranoia
The USA Patriot Act - SoulEvan - 01-22-2004
Republicans may have a greater political standing, but when it comes down to it the liberal Americans as a whole outweigh conservatives. One of the BIGGEST reasons so many "liberals" act conservative is because they think the Democrats are gonna take away they're succulent paychecks.
The USA Patriot Act - Guest - 01-22-2004
If liberals would get that "tax the moneymakers, give money to the unworkables" out of their Bible, then
I guarantee that people would rethink how they feel about liberals.
Just because I am Conservative doesn't mean I agree with everything Republicans do. The President is
really chapping alot of Conservatives with this new Illegal Immigrant Work thing.
The USA Patriot Act - SoulEvan - 01-22-2004
Okay, I was about to turn this post into an advice for "bums" post. Fortunately I stopped myself. ^_^
I completely understand what you mean though about helping the unworkables so much.
Taxing those more fortunate to aid people who are struggling? Sure. But people who refuse to use their brain and come up with some way to sell one of their skills? I'm not too hot about that.
The USA Patriot Act - SoulEvan - 01-22-2004
Oh yeah, and although I said that I'm mostly liberal(which I am so far as some common sense beliefs go (pro-earth, to an extent, against guns in the hands of civilians, affirmative action, although I'd prefer a DIFFERENT solution rather than making the minority a quota frequency)), I think it would probably be more accurate to call myself an independent.
The USA Patriot Act - Guest - 01-22-2004
are you the pro-Earth type that puts trees and squirrels above humans or the pro-Earth
type that just recycles your plastic and glass?
The USA Patriot Act - Wanksta - 01-22-2004
It depends, pro-earth just means that you like the Earth.:D
The USA Patriot Act - [CAKE]anonymity - 01-22-2004
I personally dont see what the conterversy over welfare is. If you ask me the idea of welfare came from Robin Hood and yet people dont dislike him and yet when the government does it, its horrible. Granted the gov't in robin hood was quite tyranical, but all governments could be doing more to help out the poor. I dont know if anyone has thought of this, but have you noticed that a lot of crime comes from poor neighbourhoods? Like is this true? or is it just a stereotype? Sounds like its true but i really dont know. Lawrence Kohlberg, who is a famous psycholigist says that a child under the age of 7 will absorb everything (moral wise) that others do around them. So in short a child sees breaking the law they will most likely do it. It takes a very open minded child to change that, and most adults struggle with that.
People will always say that they can get a job and help themselves. I expect several of these arguments in a later posting. My mom and my dad, two hard working parents, intelligent and are good at their jobs. They got their lay off notice in the same week. My dad went to work on his last day and was lucky enough to find another job in the same organization. My dad did that twice. He was lucky enough that there were vacancies and knew people who helped him fill those vacancies. But what happens when a company makes a round of lay offs? it happens all the time. There is no vacancies for people no matter how hard they work. We got lucky but many people dont. As a poor person would you steal from the rich to survive? Would you take it if they were giveing it? and yet you want to take it away from the people who truly need it.
The USA Patriot Act - Guest - 01-22-2004
Exactly what you said...Robin Hood WAS a thief and a criminal. It would be the same as a Brinks truck getting robbed
in a poor neighborhood and everyone taking the money because they needed it. Most people out of work have this
idea that they can ONLY work in the job they were once trained in. If they can't find a job doing what they used to do,
they won't do anything else and they say, "there aren't any jobs". If out of work people REALLY wanted to get a job, they
would take advantage of scholarship programs and get NEW training to do something besides live off people who pay
taxes. Welfare missuse and laziness is rampant here in the US. It spans generation after generation. Women living in
Section 8 houses with 9 kids and no father, all getting their food stamps each week and taxpayer granted living funds.
Get these people some education, MAKE them get a job or cut them off. I'm tired of my federal payroll tax and my gdamned
property tax and my wheel tax and every other friggin tax going from my wallet into some freeloader's pocket. I'm tired of
these people paying for 300 dollars of groceries in free foodstamps and having the sacker put those groceries in their nice
Jaguar. I have changed my careers 4 times now since I left college. Why? To put more food on my table. I had to adapt to
what paid the bills at that time.
Welfare didn't come from Robin Hood, it came from Big Government wanting the people to HAVE to depend on it.
The next time you see one of those bums on the streetcorner with the sign saying "WILL WORK FOR FOOD", go to him/her and
say Hi...I've got some leaves to rake and could pay you to help me. I bet you $200 bucks that he will turn the work down and
rather have your pocket change. Kinda sums up the welfare system here in the US.