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+---- Thread: Grawsbane (/showthread.php?tid=2623)
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Grawsbane - Guest - 04-15-2003
Last night g-boy,acid, and I were playing around 22:35pm MTN time and acid told g " Fu Gboy" so g-boy said "Fu acid" then i had said "Fu All" about 10 min later is was kicked and came back in Gb said i had gone past the swear filter and got all over me for it. I want to know why Fu is going past the swear filter but not WTF or STFU?:huh:
Grawsbane - Wha? - 04-15-2003
You're sure thats all you did?
Grawsbane - Guest - 04-15-2003
yes thats all i did WHA WHA WHA?
Grawsbane - _Acid_Head_ - 04-15-2003
Yes, that's all he did, I was there. Me and g-boy both disagreed strongly with his decision to kick Slasher, I mean, we all know what "fu" means, but it doesn't really stand for that because it's not "fy", still sounds insulting doesn't it:)
Anyway this isn't the first time Gwars has warned/kicked/banned for something this stupid.
Grawsbane - g-boy - 04-15-2003
Well I don't think that's exactly how it went... I never said FU and I never say it... but I do remember something like acid and I were playin around, we were having a fake little rivalry and stuff... so I probably said something to the effect of "screw you." Anyway, that's not the point, I agree with slasher inasmuch that FU should not be considered going past the swear filter... like he said, it's an acronym, and so if you follow that logic, the letter F should be considered bypassing. I often will say "mfing" when I'm annoyed.
I can understand if the kick was just because he was saying "FU ALL" and that is considered obnoxious or something... and though I understand the no exception rule, you have to take context into consideration. He was just playing around as were the rest of us, there was no malice in it. So when someone is just screwin around with someone they know, or whatever, then don't kick them as long as they aren't blatantly bypassing the filter. Acid was gagged a few days ago for saying "penis head" in sort of a playful way, no one took offense to it. It's not filtered, it's not that bad, who says "penis head" in a seriously malicious way, and he wasn't warned. Of course the argument is "he shouldn't need warning." Well, yes, he does, because we speak in a very unofficial manner, and joking around or mild cussing may occur. So when you gag or kick for "penis head" and "FU" it gets confusing... next thing you know, gags will be issued for saying "damn" (it's a substitute for the F word quite often), or maybe even for bad grammar.
Around the same time slasher was kicked and started complaining, someone called someone else a "fruit." Now why isn't he kicked or gagged for that? It's a euphemism for homosexual, so it's basically calling someone ######. That's worse than "penis head" in my opinion. I expect responses from the admins that will say something like "those are the rules, deal with it." Well, this is coming from regulars... we'll stay at the server, it doesn't mean we can't question some things. Maybe even some clarifications... in fact, I have an idea. Since everything can't be filtered, it would be too much, I would like a list of words and phrases that cannot be said. If something isn't on this list, warn before you gag or kick. And also, I'd like a rule that specifically states we cannot playfully say something that would normally be offensive... like acid calls me an ######, I call him a dickwad, but it's all in jest. I would LOVE to get kicked for that.
Grawsbane - _Acid_Head_ - 04-15-2003
DITO
Grawsbane - Guest - 04-15-2003
That was Scrye for a while now Scrye and i will call each other fruit for the heck of it but no one has ever complained and we even did it when GRITS was there she didnt even warn us. Even if we are regulars we still need warnings.
Grawsbane - evil_admin - 04-15-2003
If I see anyone using "fruit" in reference to being ######, you will be gagged/kicked as a minimum or most probably banned.
If you want to act like a child to test how far you can go, be ready to accept
the consequences of your actions.
Grawsbane - ][_ i m i t | e s s - 04-15-2003
God g, this isnt a f-in english exam! I dont need to read no essays. I havent read any of these points but I think Fu is fine every once in a while. I mean about 99% of the time your just saying it kinda as a joke you know? Like you dont mean it like "Fu i'm gonna kill you", you mean it like "haha fu (good one)." Its kind of a natural response for most kids trhse days.:thumb::smurf:
Grawsbane - _Acid_Head_ - 04-15-2003
Quote:If you want to act like a child to test how far you can go, be ready to accept
the consequences of your actions.
What evil admin is trying to tell us is, if you are confused out of your mind as to why you were just warned or kicked and wish to argue the fact that you got warned/kicked for something idiotic, be ready to get banned! Remember, NEVER try to talk sense into admins!
Grawsbane - Power and Glory - 04-15-2003
These are Grits rules she does not like that type of stuff even in a joking manner. That's why we are there to enforce them. You guys have no idea how much Grits is upset right now especially at Acid and Cloud. She spends her own money to provide us with a place to play and what you are doing is basically telling her to shove it. Damn you people. I'm out [End of Rant] Time for me to take a break from this.
Grawsbane - _Acid_Head_ - 04-15-2003
No we aren't telling her to 'shove it' in any way, we as active players are simply putting in our complaints on the admin staff, that's not wrong. If GRITS was upset at me I think she would've replied to my email by now, or at least talked to me in-game about calming down, what exactly do you think I'm doing wrong P&G or evil_admin? Besides disagreeing with your kickings and my banning. I've broken no rules in such a long time and you still act pissy on me, oh btw, if you didn't know, saying unblocked words in-game is not considered breaking a rule, especially if you're saying them in a non malicious way.
Grawsbane - Power and Glory - 04-15-2003
Acid I have never gagged,kicked, or banned you ever. I don't know you just were not bad when I am on. Grits does not like the F word period joking or not. There are plenty of words that are unblocked especially the people that use them creatively. So you are saying that's ok. So if a space out the F word and pardon my language here like this F * * * that's fine. I'm not saying it maliciously to anyone so I guess that's fine under your logic.
EDIT: BTW Acid I don't think you should be the one telling me what the rules are. If for some reason Grits changes her mind to let it be then I will adjust my enforcement of them according to her not you.
Grawsbane - SoulEvan - 04-15-2003
The admins have already said what can and can't be said, but you obviously missed it so allow me to fill you all in on the situation.
All words used in any way as references to bigotry/racial slurs/etc. aren't allowed.
SOME swear words are filtered out and should not be said in any form (F*** for example). But naughty words of any form cannot be directed towards another person in any way.
Just don't be stupid because the admins shouldn't have to try and figure out what's jest or seriousness.
Thus, all naughtiness in general should not be directed towards other players because it will be considered a malicious, verbal attack upon the person no matter what you think it was.
P.S. - Don't give the admins any shit about what's naughty or not. You know damn well what is. This addendum is naughty for example.
Grawsbane - Wha? - 04-15-2003
There must be a clause somewhere that states the final interpretation of context is up to any admins present.
Grawsbane - SoulEvan - 04-15-2003
The bottom line is...it shouldn't even get to that point. Everyone, including myself, should have enough common sense to know what not to say. So do as I do, and let's all switch our brains to "on."
*strips a couple gears trying to turn them* :wacko:
Grawsbane - _Acid_Head_ - 04-15-2003
Yes, common sense, I think that's what this thread is mostly about, I know the F word is bad, including words that closely resemble that word, but is "fu", "mfing", "fing" also not allowed? it isn't the word, and it does NOT closely resemble the word, use common sense when evaluating what people are saying in-game, you could be hurting more than doing any good at ALL.
Grawsbane - g-boy - 04-15-2003
See, I knew all of these responses wouldn't address the issue. They all talk about saying bad stuff and so forth... we're not talking about people saying F***... we're talking about an acronym. And no one has ever been kicked for saying wtf. But fu is now apparently kickable.
"bigotry/racial slurs/etc."
Well, hmm... "fruit" is bigotry in a sense... "penis head" is not. Yes, I know what is wrong to say, but there are certain words that are blurred in that sense... such as ###### and dickhead... I've called people both of those names with admins around. Hasn't been a problem. And I would really like to know if they are not allowed to be used.
I very much think that they should have to figure out context. If there is no bypassing of the filter, and someone is joking, then give a warning, and someone can say "ah, I was just talking to my friend." I can understand where it is a problem if the person is being obnoxious and is carefully avoiding the filter, but that's not the case with several words that acid and I call each other.
I'll say one more thing. I forgot to mention it before. It shouldn't be a big deal to be gagged or kicked... they're both temporary, and you get the point. But I think explanation is in order, someone might have not even thought about it. And a warning is basically an explanation before action is taken, which is why I think it is in order as well. Generally we aren't doing it specifically to cause problems, it just slips out. Also along those lines, when you take action without warning, it gets people pissed off, and it gets worse... that's human nature, so don't say "well they should have the maturity to keep calm," because that's just wishful thinking for a lot of people. Let's say I let "######" slip out, and the admin sees that as against the rules... don't gag or kick me, just say "g-boy... watch your language" and I say "huh?" and you tell me what I said, and I will say "oh, I'm sorry... didn't think."
Grawsbane - evil_admin - 04-15-2003
The admins do watch context and it is rare that anyone is kiccked or banned for saying something only once.
But regarding context, what about the acid/cloud situation? If an admin was there should he/she ask the two of them if it is friendly or not? If one says yes and the other says no, whom should we believe? S=As long as acid and cloud have been on ther server, do they really need to warned? Or is the warning just to let them know to get really abusive since their time is now limited?
All of the admins, GRITS included, immediately ban someone coming in with a name that is a racial or orientation slur, even when we see the name changed to Malcontent. We are certainly not going to say 'play nice' iof someone uses it in conversation to disparage another player.
If you players are here to play ricochet, then do it...if you are here to exchange disparaging remarks to each other, go to some low life CS server (not GRITS).
Grawsbane - PuNkGirL - 04-15-2003
You should think of server rules as like the law of the country and the admins as like say the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court takes the laws and interprets them the best they can, usually on the spot. This is the case for server rules. Obviously when it comes to the swear filter the rules can get blurred and it is really hard to draw the line on where it should stop. Despite the fact that a clear line can be drawn, some admins, just out of nature, will allow some of it to pass; while others cut all cussing off. Instead of a list of words that we can't use, cause obviously that would be way to long, how about a list of obscene words and acronyms that we CAN use. Maybe that will make it easier to interpret the admin rules. Of course there is one other option, just don't cuss and you'll be fine.
Grawsbane - _Acid_Head_ - 04-15-2003
Quote:If an admin was there should he/she ask the two of them if it is friendly or not?
If you can't tell, you obviously don't have the COMMON SENSE required to be an admin.
Grawsbane - g-boy - 04-15-2003
"All of the admins, GRITS included, immediately ban someone coming in with a name that is a racial or orientation slur, even when we see the name changed to Malcontent. We are certainly not going to say 'play nice' iof someone uses it in conversation to disparage another player."
That was never disputed... and I agree with it.
Grawsbane - Gwarsbane - 04-15-2003
One problem with that thought Acid...
Not only are the admins reading the chat but we are doing many other things too. We are playing and trying to have fun. We might be chating with the another admins. We might be flipping through the games to watch people.
We are not exclusively watching the chat. We don't see everything. If I would have seen you or anyone else use FU I would have kicked them too.
We shouldn't treat stuff like that like you are just joking just because if we don't see the whole conversation how do we know you are just joking around.
Most people that are just joking around add in a : P or a : ) or something to show that they are just kidding.
Does this mean that you can just start using FU with a : P and we'll ignore it, no it doesn't.
GRITS and I were talking and she was ready to e-mail and drop the 2 Ricochet server, but I think she calmed down enough so that she won't do that.
She is really pissed off by some of the regulars and how they treat people and that they get really pissed off at the admins when they try to do stuff. I know how she feels because as regulars you should know the rules by now. This is why I'm not bothering to warn the regulars before kicking them anymore.
Why do people feel the need to use swear words, or acronyms for them on the servers? Do I use swear words with my friends yes, but not in public. Not when there are little kids around or could be little kids around. You don't know how many people are out there playing with their little bother or sister watching every move and reading everything that is going on.
From now on, I'm enforcing the rules and I don't care what the players think. If you don't like playing with rules then goto another server... oh ya thats right there are not all that many people playing on other servers because they don't have admins there enforcing the rules. Even Acid asked to be unbanned because there was no where else for him to play.
The only way I will stop enforcing the rules like I will be is if GRITS or evil ask me to give warnings or they remove my admins status. GRITS is the best thing that has happened to this community. She has created a great site where people can come and express their feelings. The servers are usually a great place to play because of the rules that are enforced. I know thats why I liked playing there even before I became an admin.
Even if I stopped being an admin tonight, would I still be playing. Yes as long as there are servers like GRITS' ones. But if those servers are gone and no one is there to kick AFK or stop the chat spammers, or anything of the other things that admins do then I will leave because I won't be having fun anymore.
So here are your options...
Play by the rules and don't get punished...
Don't play by the rules and get punished...
Its your choice.
As to slashers comment "then i had said "Fu All" about 10 min later is was kicked" It was a lot quicker then 10 minutes.
Grawsbane - SoulEvan - 04-15-2003
Acid...that's the kind of crap that pisses people off. The whole damn point is that admins shouldn't be
pushed to the point of determining what's going on exactly so everyone's peachy. Just don't swear and
don't be a rude bastard child. I'm sorry dude, but sometimes shit does need to be pillowed. We're all
humans and, like it or not, we have feelings. Being a human you really should try to respect that and not be
a dickhead.
Grawsbane - _Acid_Head_ - 04-16-2003
SoulEvan do you realize that I'm not alone here? You and Cloudfuel try to make me look like a criminal.
Grawsbane - CloudFuel - 04-16-2003
try? haha.....no, we don't need to....you do it soooo well all on your own.
Grawsbane - Guest - 04-16-2003
Ok people people im not questiong admin authorty and didnt want this to get into a fight I want to know why i was kicked for saying FU not F*** You i didnt put a space or anything there even though 10 min later i was kicked and came back in was not warned about it. I restate what i said Even if we are regulars we still need warnings. I dont think it is fair for me not to get kicked with no warning and for some newbie that comes in cussing majorly and they get a warning but i say one word and get kicked. I just want to see what grits has to say on the matter so stop arguing.
Grawsbane - [CAKE]rUsh - 04-16-2003
First, the regulars aren't getting warnings anymore becuase we are regulars and have been around long enough to know the rules. The noob that comes in sewaring doesn't know them and hence gets a warning.
Secondly, why were you kicked for saying FU? well FU is an accronym for F * * * YOU. you did not misspell FUN, you did not mean Found You. The server rules clearly state that you are not to use the "naughty words" in reference to other people and should be taken to include alternate spellings and acronyms (if you can recognise it as something against rules then you probibly shouldn't say it).
wtf is allowed becuase it can't be referenced to other people and is generally used to show surprize or bewilderment.
No hard feelings i just want to try to clear this up.
Grawsbane - SoulEvan - 04-16-2003
Dangit Rush, you beat me to it! :lol:
But thanks for aiding in the battle against selective ignorance. :P
Grawsbane - Pique - 04-16-2003
So lemme get this straight:
1. Someone says "fu"
2. They are kicked without being told why
3. They RECONNECT
4. They are all pissed cause they want to know why/who kicked them (they prolly swear again)
5. They then get kicked again and it goes into a very vicous cycle cause both guys are too stubborn to stop (big suprise there)
This crap is tearing the already very small community apart. If Grits' or Pix's server goes then ricochet will die. Those servers are the life and soul of this mod. If they dont want you to swear or even make a slight itty bitty little tiny comment that in some way might relate to someone somewhere getting hurt in the slighest little bit, then you cant do it. Argueing with someone who pays for the server about their rules is not like argueing with cops or high school teachers. Its theirs and they dont care, they will do what they want and there's really nothing you can do about it.
My little suggestion to admins.
1. If you are going to gag/llama/kick/ban someone atleast give a reason. No one anywhere likes being punished for something and NOT be told why.
2. Dont kick. It causes people to reconnect hence breaking another rule.
3. Dont llama. They can just chat spam and if they are smart enough to change their name they can still convey messages.
4. USE GAG. Yes you can still change your name but the only way you can get someone to see it is if THEY check the scores and even notice your name (unlike llama where you can still say "brawww" or whatever and hence people can see your name)
I know i have a problem with my mouth a little...just second nature right now...i dont even mean too. But seriously, starting a topic to complain about admin abuse isn't going to solve anything in your favor. Grits' picked her admins and will definatly trust them over anyone else if it turns into a he said/she said arguement.