video game produces violence...

[[CAKE]anonymity]

If you play video games at all, read this article I found in the toronto star today.

[/QUOTE]Video game creator sued over killingsCHICAGO—A fatal sniping spree by two teenage Tennessee stepbrothers, who said they were mimicking the video game Grand Theft Auto III, has triggered a $246 million (U.S.) damage suit against the game's creator and others. A Canadian, whose family is from Windsor, Ont., was killed and a Virginia woman was seriously wounded by the boys' rifle fire last June. The suit, filed Monday at Newport, Tenn., names Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc., Rockstar Games, a subsidiary of Take-Two Interactive Software Inc., Wal-Mart Inc., which sold the game, the parents of the boys and the boys themselves. Registered nurse Aaron Hamel, 45, was killed and Kimberly Bede, 19, of Moneta, Va., was wounded in the pelvis when .22-calibre bullets hit their vehicles June 25, as they passed through the Great Smoky Mountains. The suit alleges that the parties being challenged should have known the game would lead to "copycat violence." In court in August, Joshua and William Buckner, 14 and 16, respectively, admitted firing a rifle from a wooded hilltop overlooking the highway Hamel and Bede were using. They were ordered held until age 19 after pleading guilty to reckless homicide, aggravated assault and reckless endangerment. Hamel's cousin, Denise Deneau of Windsor, was in his truck and injured when it ran off the road. The suit was filed on behalf of Hamel's parents John and Rosemary Hamel, also of Windsor, Deneau and a passenger in the Brede vehicle. REUTERS, ASSOCIATED PRESS[QUOTE]

[RuNnInG_wIth_ScISsOrS]

Garbage. You could blame this incident on anything. If these so called "good" parents were truly looking out for their children, they would have taken the game away since it was rated M (For Mature, not for 14 and 16 year olds). They revoked their right to file any complaint towards the content of the game when they let their children keep it. The Entertainment Software Rating Board isn't getting paid to do nothing. These parents are not sueing for damages, they are sueing for their own profit. If anything, the victims should be sueing the parents for negligence. What damages did the parents exactly suffer other than the anguish of learning that their son's are murderers and unstable? The only other harm I could see that took place was the realization that they were terrible parents.

NEGLIGENCE
The tort of negligence is:

1.   doing something that a person using ordinary care would not do, or
2.   not doing something that a person using ordinary care would do.  W. Page Keeton et al., Prosser and Keeton on the Law of Torts, §§ 28-31.

If they were actually good parents, they would have taught their children proper ethics and morals. These kids had 14 years to learn what right and wrong is, then they just go and throw it all away to listen to a video game that they had been playing for around a month? When one can not recognize the difference between reality and imagination, that's insanity, simple as that.

the parents of the boys and the boys themselves.

These boys and parents have no one to blame but them themselves. If for 14 years I knew that jumping off a cliff was stupid, and then someone told me it was the smart thing to do, I think I'd go with my own personal opinion. It's called common sense, and these boys are seriously lacking in it. This is just another example of parents taking advantage of a traumatizing situation that their children were in. You could blame this killing spree on ANYTHING, they live in Chicago for god's sake. I could just blame this series of homicides on the large amount of crime and gangs in Chicago. Then again, I could blame it on the 2nd Amendment and Bush for not keeping weapons out of children's hands. Rockstar is being used a scapegoat, the parents just don't want to admit that their children are unstable. The fact that the children are unstable then points to poor parenting, they realize this and are trying to keep the finger pointed in Rockstar's direction. If you buy your child a ticket for a rated R movie and take them to see it, you can't blame the movie or the content for what your child witnessed.

Too be frank, these parents were negligent about the content their children were viewing. I seriously doubt you wouldn't notice the gunshots and sirens blasting through the house from this game. These people ignored what they were seeing, hence, negligence. People do not go on shooting sprees due to video games. There are always multiple sources of the problem: Not well liked in school, lost faith, child abuse, divorce, whatever. No one thing can cause such a breakdown. It's like getting a flat tire, no big deal. Then again, let's say your tire popped while hitting 80 on the freeway heading for a job interview that would keep you out of bankruptcy. This would cause you just a little more stress than the previous situation. These parents were not aware of their children's self-esteem or their life style. The blame can not just be shoved in Rockstar's lap. Grand Theft Auto III sold over 8 MILLION (Probably more now, remember this figure from before Vice City came out) copies. Yet, we're only getting 2-3 of these cases. That means that only .0000002%(Rounded) of the people that bought the game caused an incident like this. What if the Zodiac killer liked Foster Farms chicken, does that mean you're going to sue Foster Farms for indirectly causing the murders? Scapegoat for shitty parenting Rockstar has become.

[Guest]

Of course it does, look how some people get angry over things. Anything that makes you angry can insite violence, it's that simply. However, they are looking more at a specific area rather than anger management as a whole.

Those with problems generally will usually have problems in game. Sometimes there are exceptions, but you'll find that happens more often than not.

[[CAKE]anonymity]

If these people were angry, more ppl should be blaming road rage on all murders.

Edit: i also find it shocking that they're sueing for 246 million

[[CAKE]anonymity]

In the 1980s, arcade games like Pac-Man became dominant. In Pac-Man, a yellow orb with a mouth raced around the screen chomping up ghosts and goblins. At this point, some eyebrows were raised questioning whether young people should play such "violent" games.

a quote from Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, and the article about video games located at http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp784772.html

From what i gather so far the resarch says "Study 1 found that real-life violent video game play was positively related to aggressive behavior and delinquency."

and "In Study 2, laboratory exposure to a graphically violent video game increased aggressive thoughts and behavior."

[[CAKE]anonymity]

Spare the violent video games, save on child psychology
By Adele Horin
September 10, 2003

If you believe children should do their homework and adults should not smoke around kids, then you should also ban violent video games from your home, a visiting psychologist says.

Craig Anderson, chairman of the department of psychology at Iowa State University, says the evidence that violent video games make children more aggressive is stronger even than evidence on the dangers of passive smoking and the benefits of doing homework.

Professor Anderson, an expert on children and video violence, is the key speaker at a seminar tomorrow organised by Young Media Australia, and later at an international conference organised by the Office of Film and Literature Classification.

"We can say with clarity that children exposed to a lot of entertainment violence grow up to be more aggressive adults," he said. "And that's even when you control for all kinds of variables such as parental aggression, temperament, education and income."

Professor Anderson said research on video game violence was less extensive than on the effects of TV and film violence. But he reviewed 46 independent tests of the effects of video games, 16 specifically on children, and found the evidence conclusive: playing violent video games caused significant increases in aggression both in the short term and the long term.

"It's imperative for parents to control their children's media diets," he says. "It can be a daunting task, especially for parents whose computer skills are considerably inferior to those of their children."

To parents who say total control is impossible, he insists: "It is difficult to control what your child eats when at a friend's house, but the solution is not to abandon your parental responsibility to provide nutritious meals at home."

Any step taken to reduce exposure to video violence was beneficial, since it was repeated exposure that produced negative effects, he said.

His own children, now aged 20 and 13, had been raised on a diet of non-violent, educational, "fun" games carefully pre-screened to ensure labels such as "action", "comic mischief" or "teen" were not covers for violence. Even videos based on cartoon characters could contain unacceptable violence.


This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/09/...2902057257.html

more shrinks are loseing there mind

first of all, i'd like to see this evidence, and second, has this psychologist ever played a video game in his life? I'm so worked up right now, im gonna go play some rico to releve the tension, thanks for putting up with my many posts :thumb:

[g-boy]

Ok, here we go. First off, I'm big on psychology and am about to switch to it as my major. One big thing you learn is the difference between cause and effect and correlation. Statistically, we may find it to be true that those who play violent video games are more aggressive. Does it mean that the games caused the aggressiveness? HELL NO. Not even close. It's much more likely that other things have made the person aggressive, and playing games is a release. In other words, someone who is aggressive is more likely to play violent games, not the other way around. This does not mean normal people who play these games go out and shoot people or are aggressive at all. I love GTA3, HL games, in fact almost every game I play is violent... even football can be regarded as violent... football and hockey are my favorite sports. You look at my behavior in the video game world, one may conclude that I'm an aggressive and potentially violent person. If you asked anyone who knew me, I don't have an ounce of violence in me. I am a generally quiet person (unless it's a friend I'm comfortable with) and most of my thoughts come out on paper or typing. I am against violent people and rant about them all the time. So, no, playing a god damn video game will not induce violence. In fact, I'm surprised a psychologist said all that, because I'd think psychologists would be the ones who could most clearly see that they don't cause violence. There is no mechanism in a teenager's mind that would result in a monkey-see-monkey-do effect. In a young child? YES. Definitely.

It's like what RWS was saying. Look, I'm 18, I remember being 14 and 16. I played games then. I was not a moron, I knew right from wrong, the concrete had set so to speak. I never had any impulse to do anything I'd seen in a game or on TV that is wrong. At that point, for all intents and purposes, you're an adult. Maybe not completely mature, but an adult in the sense of impressionability. I was surprised diablo was playing ricochet because of his age. Now ricochet is fine, but I'd never want someone as young as him playing HL type games, and definitely not GTA3. There is a chance of future consequences as a result, if someone that age plays enough.

The bottom line is, the kids who did this had OTHER problems and perhaps this compounded it. If they were reacting to what they saw in a game, it means something psychologically was wrong, a disorder of some kind, to where their minds have not matured to their true age. Or, they are just a couple of sick ass holes who committed murder, like any other sick ass hole out there. And they happened to play video games, like MOST teenage males. Ladies and gentlemen, video games and TV do not cause violence... there may be a positive correlation (not a very good one at that), but it doesn't cause shit. People like to look for someone or something to blame for bad things that happen. The 2nd amendment isn't responsible either. Take it away and there will still be guns. Take it away and there will still be explosives and knives and crossbows and poison and fists and feet. What matters is the mind behind the person who pulls the trigger or lights the fuse. What matters behind that mind is the parents and genetics. People kill people.

[Wha?]

To prove the people kill people theorem, just open a history book index and look for "video game". If you find it, look at the page and see if it says "Adolf Hitler would play GTA3 between speeches". If you find that, look for a neurologist to see if that book has caused permanent damage.

If you want something concrete, dig up some murder statistics for a bunch of years, like 2003 (as soon as it's over, of course), 1995, 1985, '75, '65, etc. and assume all of them played violent video games. Now find the year with the most, and look at where it fits in with the development of games in general. Repeat for every country on the planet. This is solid proof that video games are so mindnumbingly evil, that their influence encompasses the globe, and spreads through TIME ITSELF. And you thought they were harmless. Ha!

[Gwarsbane]

I have played very violent video games for many number of years. All the way from arcades to some of the newer video games.

I play ultraviolent video games
I play ultraviloent boardgames and RPGs
I play paintball/airsoft (like paintball but with plastic pellets and very real looking guns)
I read ultraviolent books
I watch ultraviolent movies
I watch ultraviolent tv show
I watch ultraviolent animes
I listen to heavy metal and other violent music
I drink alcohol


I have not gone speeding through the streets of cities because its in a movie, anime or game.

I have not gone on a shooting spree because its in a movie, anime or game.

I have not gone and bashed in peoples faces because its in a movie, anime or game.

I have not gone and tried to break into milatary bases because its in a movie, anime or game.

I have not started doing or dealing drugs because its in a movie, anime or game.

I have not gone on a smashing spree because some music artist has it in their music that is in some game I play.

I have not gone rollerblading through a city putting spraypaint everywhere because its in a movie, anime or game.

I have not raped anyone because its in a movie, anime or game.

I have not sucked someones blood like a vampire (or other wise) because its in some movie, anime or game.

I have never slammed someone in the head with anything just because I seen it in a movie, anime or game.


I have never done any of the above because its in a movie, book, music, anime or game because unlike the other idiots that do stuff like that, I actually have a brain and know that its wrong.


The store is not suppose to sell anything mature to people under the specific age (18 I believe) so since they are under 18 either the store didn't ID them like its suppose to or they had someone of age buy it for them.

The creator of the game is not at fault for them playing the game. The parents can be blamed, well sort of. they should be watching everything the kids do on the computer, but guess what, if the parents don't know too much about computers then it would be easy for the kids to hide stuff on the computer.

So really you are down to just blaming the store, who ever got them the game, who ever sold them the game and/or the kids themselves.

[Gwarsbane]

In the past people blamed the gods and demons for people killing each other, then it was witchcraft, then it was comics/books, then it was music, then it was tv/movies, then it was video games.

The one thing that people don't want to blame is themselves.

[jabbahunt]

[QUOTE]I play ultraviolent video games
I play ultraviloent boardgames and RPGs
I play paintball/airsoft (like paintball but with plastic pellets and very real looking guns)
I read ultraviolent books
I watch ultraviolent movies
I watch ultraviolent tv show
I watch ultraviolent animes
I listen to heavy metal and other violent music
I drink alcohol


I have not gone speeding through the streets of cities because its in a movie, anime or game.

I have not gone on a shooting spree because its in a movie, anime or game.

I have not gone and bashed in peoples faces because its in a movie, anime or game.

I have not gone and tried to break into milatary bases because its in a movie, anime or game.

I have not started doing or dealing drugs because its in a movie, anime or game.

I have not gone on a smashing spree because some music artist has it in their music that is in some game I play.

I have not gone rollerblading through a city putting spraypaint everywhere because its in a movie, anime or game.

I have not raped anyone because its in a movie, anime or game.

I have not sucked someones blood like a vampire (or other wise) because its in some movie, anime or game.

I have never slammed someone in the head with anything just because I seen it in a movie, anime or game.

Yet.

[g-boy]

Yet.

Come on jabba, gwars doesn't have too many years left in him... yet would have been a while ago.:P

[jabbahunt]

true, soon he will be to blind to shoot. with hairy knuckles.

[fritoman]

my brother in laws son cant play CS because when he did after he was done playing it he would lash out at his sister, sometimes hitting her and be very aggressive toward her, so they made him stop playing and the aggression "for the most part" stopped. I think people are affected in different ways by different stimuli, and we cant say how one is going to be affected over another, I know Im not going to be to popular in saying this but I believe that in some kids these type of video games DO incite violance, but I believe that it is the parents JOB to make sure that there childern are not affected in an adverse manner, "like my bro in law did with his kid" any type of violance in our day and age can be taken to the extreme by children and that is where the parents come in.

p.s. when Josh starts yelling at the computer screen because something happened that he dosent like, I make him stop playing.

also when the kids says they got the idea from a video game I concider that pretty damning evidence, I dont think they thought they would not get in trouble if they blamed the video game, and this isnt the first time kids have done things that seem like they are straght out of a video game, "the school shootings in Germany, "the kids favorite game was CS" the Columbine shootings "cant remember what game they played" with out research, but it was like CS, and this one we are talking about, and there have been more.

[Gwarsbane]

With the Columbine shootings, music was blamed at first and then they started blaming doom I think was the game they played alot, or one of the quake games.


Sure some kids can be effect by video games, but I think thats a mental problem. If all kids were effected by video games or heavy metal music then all video games and all heavy metal music would have been banned by now because kids would be going on killing sprees 24/7 in every part of the world, in every country, in every city, in every house that has a computer, tv or music player.


So I'm back to not blaming the video games or their creators. I'm back to blaming the kids that play the game, or can stop the kids that get violent because of the games.

Again I mention that I have been playing violent video games for most of my life. One of the first games I can remember is Discs of Tron in the arcade, where you had to hit the other person with discs. I think I was 7 or 8 when I first played that. I have played even more violent games and again, I haven't killed anyone, or hurt anyone.

Frito your brother in law did the right thing taking away the game that made his son violent. If his son ever does a violent crime for what ever reason, I would not blame his father because his father has tried to do the right things over the years by the sounds of it.

Alot of parents don't really pay attention to a games ratings today (same with movies and CDs)

And with todays access to anything you want over the internet and through friends, there is no stopping some kids from getting what ever they want.

[Beebs]

___I can understand frito's point. I have three under age nephews (under 18 yrs old) and it will be a cold day in Hell if their parents let them play anything more "violent" than Diddy Kong Racing or Mario Sunshine. I am, however, forced to side with the popular opinion on this topic: SINCE kids at a young age are "spunges" to outside stimuli, it is the parents' duty to ensure that their young children are taught that those type of games/activities are inappropiate at that age.
___Of course we cannot supervise them 24/7 during the early teen years, but we sure as heck can when they park their arses in front of a computer/TV in our house. I know every situation is different; some families are "single-parented" and it could mean the single parent has little time to interact with their children. Some parents simply do not have the time to act as a "watchdog" for whatever reasons. I am not justifying neglecting your kids, but when people say, "it's the parent's fault" and "all parents should watch everything their kids do" they may be assuming a utopian world where all families have this inherrent foundation for these solutions.
___Parents will fail and the result will sometimes be that their kids will show up at school with guns. Thankfully, this does not happen often. I do agree with most of you that the violence these children/teenagers decide to use is an indication of a deeper-routed problem, be it emotional, spiritual, mental, etc.
___I know this is easier said than done, but if you're not sure what your kids are doing at the younger ages, make the farking time to find out lest you find yourself so angry, shocked and bitter that you transfer the blame to a video game company that, as one of a million different media outlets for aggression, simply allowed your kid find a subsitute for dealing with their problems in a way condusive to a life void of real-life senseless violence.

[Beebs]

___Pay no attention to my signature. :) I'm older than 18 and mature enough (hopefully) to know that it would be a bad idea to bring a circular saw-blade to school and start cutting people up.

[FreeFall]

The kids involved with the columbine shooting went bowling that morning, why not blame the violence on bowling?


I'd like to thank Michael Moore and his movie "Bowling for Columbine" for this comment.

[[CAKE]anonymity]

I posted a journal study, done by shrinks, either in this topic or the other one, begging for sources. This is about the columbine issue

Harris and Klebold enjoyed playing the bloody, shoot-'em-up video game Doom, a game licensed by the U.S. military to train soldiers to effectively kill.

A) i want to find out if doom was actually played by the military to train soilders, its not excatly the most realist game.
B)this: a tape made for a school project by the two shooters

In the video, Harris and Klebold dress in trench coats, carry guns, and kill school athletes.

This tape gives a much larger view of the psyche's of the two minds.

somethink for the people who think video games = violenct people:

Would a person who plays violent video games and/or listens to "music of the devil" (this was elvis at one point) and/or goes bowling, be more likely to shoot up a school, then someone who makes a video tape dipicting themsevles, shooting up a school.

my brother in laws son cant play CS because when he did after he was done playing it he would lash out at his sister

quick question if you dont mind frito, how old is your nephew in law?

I like the idea of the parents stopping the son from playing CS, but if u ask me, its kind of like putting a band aid over a broken leg. They haven't really solved anything. If in fact this is a child, there could be multiple things to account for his behaviour, he's still young and doesnt have full control of his emotions, and the actions from those emotions. It could be just sibling rivalry. I used to fight with my sister, physically sometimes and sometimes i would fight with my brother, pyhsically at times. Now i dont fight with my sister at all, and occasionally i'll get into arguments with my brother.

I would suggest to your brother in law, to keep trying to calm his son down, and keep disciplineing him when he does something wrong, im sure he'll turn out to be a good kid frito.

[fritoman]

he is 16 now, he bought the game back when I did cus he came over one day and played mine and just had to have it, so he got his dad to buy him one and it went from there, yes he has some problems emotionally, he was adopted at age 4 I believe, and that contributes to his emotional state, but what you are forgetting is not every kid is a well adjusted emotionally sound person, so bearing that in mind, if all kids were the best and never had tendancys to get in trouble we wouldnt be having this thread at all but they are not and so here we are. So yes I believe video games can incite violance in kids but if the perents pay attention and take care it wont lead to columbine.

[Quickening]

I did a research project on this topic already. Pretty much after reading tons of articles and essays, I came to this. Kids react differently to the games. For the most part it doesn't effect kids in a major way, no killings, suicides, threats, stuff like that. The major thing that causes this is from what type of enviroment the kids have grown up in. Its a known fact we learn from elders, we see our dad or mom say something, we say it. We see our siblings do something, we do it. Its the parents jobs to control kid and bring them up in a healthy life style. For example, I think I read 60% of smokers come from a smoking family. So if the dad is a drunk and is very aggresive, most the time the kid might end up like that also, but not always. But isn't the video games that cause this, I would say music/tv would cause more violence. With all the murder movies and all the rap songs about drugs/sex/hos...I think that is where its coming from. But bottom line...parents do your job.

I didn't read any of the others cause I'm pressed for time, but sorry if I repeated stuff.

[[CAKE]anonymity]

According to this study, video games are worse then movies http://www.apa.org/releases/videogames.html

The only justifaction they have so far is that its because its interactive.

One study reveals that young men who are habitually aggressive may be especially vulnerable to the aggression-enhancing effects of repeated exposure to violent games

No kidding, violent people are violent, that doctorate must be really easy. BTW they also have PHD's :huh:

We also found that amount of time spent playing video games in the past was associated with lower academic grades in college

20 bucks says they were playing CS.

Violent video games provide a forum for learning and practicing aggressive solutions to conflict situations

the conflict is the other guy with the gun who wants to kill you

that study seems to revolve primarily around this one: http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp784772.html

I think i've found one very basic reason for why the player is being so aggresive and angry, hes getting owned, maybe the should get him to put god mode on, and see how violent and aggresive that player is now.

Violent content by itself, however, in the absence of another provocation, is likely to have little direct impact on affect

in english it means, video games and movies, and other media has little impact, why cant people read that part of it?

[Guest]

This is just like that Columbine crap where people tried sueing Eminem and Maryln Manson and ID software or whatever, the guys who made Doom and Quake. If your kid goes out and shoots people for no reason hes messed up, half the time they just use video games warping their minds as an excuse for their actions. Its like pleading insanity. Total garbage.