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Ummmm YIKES!!! http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/space/04/04/s...torm/index.html
Man if they get much bigger the magnetic field of the earth won't be able to help us and portions of this planet could be flashed fried.
Scary stuff seeing as how we have no protection against it. Its not like we can move the earth out of the way. I guess we could scramble for underground bunkers if we know a big one is coming, then again we only have a few days warning at most
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10-25-2003, 11:40 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2003, 11:41 PM by _Acid_Head_.)
I'm sure there have been bigger before human beings were even able to start recording solar flares (which is what? 40 years ago or less?). I really wouldn't be worried about stuff like this, it's all naturally controlled, if a big one ever hits us, we'll be dead either way when it rips through our atmosphere, but really, they don't get big enough to even reach Venus. When our star turns into a red giant, don't worry, you won't even know what hit you.
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And luckily it won't be a red giant for about 5 billion years :thumb:
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how come that article is dated April 4, 2001?
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Because that's when it happened.
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10-26-2003, 12:28 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-26-2003, 12:30 AM by Gwarsbane.)
Awww Nuts I grabbed the wrong one.
I just seen on CNN about a new solar flare, did a seach for solar flare on CNN.com and figured that it would show the most recent thing to do with solar flares first. Sorry about that.
Here is the correct link...
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/10/23/s...cast/index.html
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Well if i didnt know about this, i would never have notice anything wrong. I'm sure the atmosphere must filter out most of it, or else we wouldnt be here, or we would be very diffrent, or maybe this is diffrent :blink:
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The magnetosphere does it's job well.
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10-26-2003, 01:28 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-26-2003, 01:32 AM by Gwarsbane.)
atmosphere does squat... well ok it does more then squat, but not much more:D. Like Wha said its the magnetosphere that does all the work to keep us safe.
If we were to lose the magnetosphere we'd all be dead in seconds.
Here is the basics of how it works.... (Gwarsbane puts his mister science hat on)
Earth has a molten core of metal that spins. Around that core is more metal that does not move as fast as the core. This creates a magnet (this is why we have a north and south pole).
If you take a magnet, piece of paper and some metal filings, put the magnet under the paper and sprinkle the filings on top of the magnet you will see the lines of force for the north and south pole.
The earth has those same lines of magnetic force, just on a MUCH larger scale.
Magnetically charged particles (known as the solar wind) come from the the sun. They are non-stop. The magnetic field around the earth deflects them like an umbrella deflects rain.
A solar flare is like a gust of solar wind. From personal experience I know that a gust of wind will make my umbrella move is different ways and some rain will hit me if the wind is strong enough.
Well if the solar flare (solar wind gust) is strong enough it can push the magnetosphere around and some of the highly charged particles will get into our atmosphere.
These particles that get into our atmorsphere is what causes the northern lights (Aurora Borealis)
These particles are always getting into the northern area because the magnetic field is not as strong there because it folds in on itself there. But sometimes when a large flare comes the earths magnetic field can only hold back so much and then you get the northern lights lower to the equator then they normally are.
Its those charged particles that mess with power grids and communications.
All the above info is just from memory from my science class that I had nearly 10 years ago. I'm sure some info is a little messed up, but I do remember most of it. Course I was also lisening to my walkman and reading a sci-fi/fantasy novel all science class and still getting 80s and 90s in it. :D
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BTW, i'll provide pictures if anyone wants them :)
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Quote:Man if they get much bigger the magnetic field of the earth won't be able to help us and portions of this planet could be flashed fried.
and then...
Quote:Earth has a molten core of metal that spins. Around that core is more metal that does not move as fast as the core. This creates a magnet
So how does the sun stop the core from spinning? The magnetic field is strong enough to keep us safe from the sun. Your first post is paranoid, then you explain how we're safe from the sun, I'm confused. If the earth has lasted this long with life, I'm sure the magnetic field around earth won't give out just now, no point in worrying about it.
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The only real threat they would pose is on our technology, like blackouts that have happened in the past. Acid is right... think about it logically... there's no particular reason for the Sun to be any more dangerous right now than in the past... it's all natural what's happening, it just seems scary because we can see it with sensors and telescopes. The one flaw in your logic, acid, is that life has survived and such... well, yeah, but not without some problems along the way. It's not as if there haven't been mass extinctions. But, on the other hand, I don't think solar flares have had anything to do with mass extinctions of the past, nor have I even heard any hypotheses suggesting that. The message is the same though... chill. If by some weird quirk of nature the Sun unleashes a solar flare large enough to destroy our society (which would take one huge goddamn solar flare by the way), then there is nothing we can do about it. If you want to worry about asteroids and comets, cool, because there are contingencies for that (which we should work on a bit more)... but solar flares? Nada. So don't worry about it.
I would like to point out that they reckon the polarity of the earth changes every x thousands of years. And, whilst I can't remember that x figure of the top of my head, I do know that we are at least 10x past the last one that occured...
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we're also overdue for an asteroid or metor collision.
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I never said that the sun or a solar flare would stop the earths core from spinning. I just said that it would push the electromagnetic field out of the way like the wind pushes an umbrella out of the way.
Take 2 magnets. One larger then the other. Use the big one to push the other one around, now take the big one away. The little magnet is still magnetic isn't it.
I'll use the example of the umbrella...
In light winds an umbrella can be used to deflect the wind and rain. But in heavy winds an umbrella is useless because it gets pushed to the size and falls apart.
This is just like the magnetic field of the earth. If you get a large enough magnetic force pushing against the earths magnetic field it will just push the earths field out of the way.
Another example you might understand acid is you get 2 guys with the same strength pushing against each other. Neither will move because they are the same strength.
Now you get one guy that can push say 100 pounds and another guy that can push 110 pounds. With that extra 10 pounds the second guy is gonna win in a pushing match (thou only very slowly.
This is what its like know. Earth is pushing with a electromagnetic force of 100 and the solar winds are pushing with a electromagnetic force of 90.
A solar flare is released by the sun (for what ever reason) and it hits earth with a electromagnetic force of 110. That force is enough to over power earths electromagnetic field, but only by a bit so the effect are pretty small.
Now what happens if a solar flare with an electromagnetic force of 150 hits? Again it over powers earths electromagnetic field but this time with more effects.
Things get even more complicated in that the earth just don't have a field strength of 100 all the way through. The electromagnetic field can range in strength and gets weaker the farther out you get. So we'll say that out by the moon the field strength is 100, but closer in orbit it has a field strength of 1000 (we'll say this is as strong as the field gets).
The stronger the electromagnetic effect of the flare is the closer to earth it can get. Now what do you think would happen if a solar flare with a strength of 1010 were to hit? It could make it all the way to earth and make the northern lights a little brighter. What would happen if the flares strength is 1500, it could make the northern lights VERY bright and mess up communications in the northern regons.
What would happen if a flare with a strength of 5000 hit... or a strength of 10,000 hit? What would happen then?
The sun can send out flares with electromagnetic fields that are many times earths own electromagnetic field because the sun is so much bigger then the earth. The sun is over 300,000 times larger then the earth (I can't remember the exact size, but I think its larger then that). Its not that inconceivable to think that the sun could create a solar flare with an electromagnetic field that is 10 times the strength of the earths field.
If a solar flare of say force 20,000 to 40,000 hit us, it could easily flash fry the side of the earth that is facing it at the time. We'd loose half our atmosphere and loose even more over time due to fires across whole continents. A large chunk of the oceans could be boiled off and turn to super heated steam. With this ever happen? Who knows, but it could. Just like an asteroid could hit us with no warning at all. (we've had a few close calls as of late) BTW we're hit by asteroids every day, just that most of them are smaller then a truck and never make it past the upper atmosphere.
Net is right, they figure that the electromagnetic field of the earth changes every 23,000 years or so. Basically the axis of the earth changes because its actually wobbling which changes the electromagnetic field. Its not enough to enough to get rid of the field but it does weaken it. I believe I read some where that north becomes south and south becomes north or something like that.
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perhaps a tradgedy of such would shed some light on humanity: if a large enough solar flare ever reached earth, or if a monstrous comet or meteor came streaking across the sky, or some disaster were to happen, WE ARE ALL SCREWED. politics aside, earth will cease to exist. no more religion, no more predjudices, no more daisy chains and no more Starbucks. Maybe if we just realized this, we'd work a little harder to mend current disputes (no matter where or with whom), and get in gear with avoiding extinction. If we can't do this, then I'll just pray that we're wiped out ASAP. No fuss. No muss. At least if something natural were to kill us all, then history would not be able to say that we did it to ourselves. Let's hope that nature gets us before we do.
If the magnetics changed, humans wouldn't just be screwed, in theory we should be wiped out... however, as it's gradually in the whole event of time, then I believe we'll adapt to it as we have other such events. Many will suffer, but people in power will get more of it. Such is life.
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Before we start spouting out random information about the end of life as we know it, let's get our basics right. A coronal mass ejection is not a solar flare, so stop calling it that. CME's are much more energetic than solar flares, and that's pretty impressive seeing as solar flares can release the same amount of energy as 40 billion atomic bombs. Here's your CME. It may look like it's surrounding the entire sun, but that's just because we're recording from Earth. This is also probably due to the fact that CMEs can quickly grow larger than the sun and are moving toward Earth. It's not like we have anything to worry about though, CME's can happen 2-3 times a day when sunspots are being unusually fiesty. At the minimum, we get about 1 CME a week. Quite the common occurence.
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Ok, I'll go back to acid's point. You're talking about a pretty insane event... yes, the Sun is large, but it's also 93 million miles away. There has been life on this planet for billions of years... an event you're describing would cause a mass extinction. Of the mass extinctions we know of, there's no evidence I've ever heard of that points to a natural occurrance of the Sun as being a cause. The reason life exists here is because the conditions are right, we are just the right distance away with the right combination of molecules and the right-sized planet. There would not be life here if the sun were that much of a threat. Just because there has been some activity in sunspots in the past few years is not indicating the end of life as we know it, considering this seems to be something that hasn't happened in the past two billion years. I don't know, the time scales are so huge and we've managed to do just fine, I think you all need to relax and think about something else, it's wasted energy. Like I said... society-ending asteroids we can do something about, the earth being "flash-fried" is not. Speaking of which, that's not really an occurrance that I even knew was possible in the Sun's current state... I'd like to see some legitimate scientific stuff on that.
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10-26-2003, 08:55 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-26-2003, 08:55 PM by PIX.)
I'm sure if an extinction event happens to the earth and billions of people die, then the Democrats will
cry for a recount of the dead that is posted.:D
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well it would have been much simplier, if Florida wasnt part of the planet.
I'd like to post 2 questions here
1) how long have we had the equipment to measure these flares or CME's?
2) how long has the sun been doing this?
Chances are the sun has been giveing off more magnetic flares then this storm here, we just havent recorded them.
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yah, thats a pretty safe bet there. you could probably say that for just about anything.
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[CAKE Wrote:anonymity,Oct 26 2003, 10:44 PM] well it would have been much simplier, if Florida wasnt part of the planet.
I'd like to post 2 questions here
1) how long have we had the equipment to measure these flares or CME's?
2) how long has the sun been doing this?
Chances are the sun has been giveing off more magnetic flares then this storm here, we just havent recorded them. 1) About 20 to 30 years (maybe longer), thou only the last 10 years I believe we have been able to get good views of them and better warnings.
2) For all we know, as long as the sun has been around... or only in the last 100 years. either could be true we don't know for sure.
Chances are the sun has been doing this since the beggining and we have just dodged bullets over all these years after all our orbit of the sun is pretty big and there is alot of empty space to miss us with. Not only just round in an orbit, but off in any direction. For all we know massive ones could be going off on the back of the sun. We can't watch back there. The sun does rotate every 28 days thou.
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The world has to end someday so why bother fearing it?
Watch "Pi" by Dan arkonofstki or whatever ythe vcrap his name is..he also wrote requiem for a dream. You see there's a pattern in everything so it's actually inevitable that some sort of disaster will happen and destroy life. Then It'll start again and that life will evolve and so on and so forth until the sun burts outwards and engulfs the earth in flames.
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well if the sun has been doing it for only 100 years, then there is still a 70 year gap that wasnt monitiored, and this is the smallest gap possible.
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FreeFall,Oct 27 2003, 12:46 AM Wrote:Watch "Pi" by Dan arkonofstki or whatever ythe vcrap his name is..he also wrote requiem for a dream. First: it's Darren Aronofski.
Second: He didn't write Requiem for a Dream. He just directed it.
We'll have to get facts like those correct if we are ever to recycle ourselves into oblivion.
Or, not. Whatever.
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