Who will win in 2004 ?

[_Acid_Head_]

And Acid...more people are turning to Independents because people are losing their backbone and are chickenshit to stand up for anything...left or right.

No, the reason is because both parties are too extreme, calling me chickenshit for not standing for what you do is stupid. As you said, left or right, you have to stand for one side (pretty much opposites), you can't stand for views in both parties, or your own views, your views have to follow the guidelines. So, PIX, you've NEVER agreed with any democratic views? Or any view other than what the republicans tell you? People like that are stubborn and ignorant. It's not like being a Republican makes you a super hero of america, it just means you stand for something, I don't stand for everything either party beleives in, so what's the point in joining either if you don't fully beleive in what they do? I'm not saying you don't, I'm just saying both parties are trash, and if you want to call me a liberal for it, go ahead.

[Wha?]

Dillute the vote? What exactly does that mean? Dilution is reducing the concentration, so how does a vote get diluted by people introducing votes into the system? It sounds like a buzzword used to manufacture consent. Like "collateral damage" or "surgical strike". If I'm wrong, correct me, but it really sounds like it has no meaning.

[PIX]

Nobody said being Republican makes you a superhero Acid. AH....people who hold to tradition in their political values are stubborn
and stupid? Sounds like a comment from someone who is desparate to start slinging mud in a futile attempt to look educated. No Acid,
I generally don't agree with many if any liberal views...I do find many of them very humorous and entertaining. But I would take a look in
the mirror...I don't think you have agreed with anyone on ANY subject EVER in this forum. I would think that the Devil's Advocate persona
would be getting old now. You say both parties are trash....now come on....that's the government of your country....YOUR country. Why
would you bad mouth it.....does it make you feel better to verbally bash the government of the greatest country the free world has ever known?
And lastly I am not going to call you a liberal....you are far from a liberal....liberals at least stand for something. You just sound like the spoiled
child who didn't get asked to play ball, and now he wants to make everyone think that the ball game sucked anyway.

Wha?....dilluting the vote is a term in reference to a 'weakening' of the vote. You have 1000 people who normally vote for candidate A over B, and you
suddenly get candidate C join the race. When people out of those 1000 start to cast their usual vote for A to C, they are dilluting the vote normally given to
A. It's the same thing here in my city. If you have 2 people running for mayor, one white and one black....the black candidate will win straight out....people vote
straight on the race line here it seems. Now...if you happen to throw in the one white candidate, the black candidate and now another black candidate running
independently, you have a dillution of the vote for the original black candidate. He won't get his strong usual vote because it is now divided with him and the independent.
I think it has very clear meaning and has been in use for decades.

[g-boy]

PIX, in all honesty, lay off. You call independents chickenshit, how the hell do you expect acid to react?

I'm independent too... so I'm a spoiled child? I'm afraid to believe in something? What the f kind of logic is that? I don't have to choose to be either Republican or Democrat and in fact that's my right as an American. I call things like I see them, and I see flaws in both parties. I will not nail myself to the views of one or another. Again, independents don't necessarily dilute the vote... and independent is not green party, green party is green party. It just means I don't consider myself to be any particular party, and I'll vote for whomever I want. Usually, that'll be a Republican or Democrat.

I think my dad is the reason I lean towards the right, but he's also the reason I won't consider myself Republican. He hates liberals, makes fun of me for going to a liberal college, says he'll never even talk to one (unless it's an argument I'm sure). I think that's retarded. My writing professor is liberal... I like the guy. His political views won't affect my opinion of him as a person, and he doesn't have a problem with me not agreeing with his views. My dad will not stop talking about liberals as though they are evil... like in the newspaper during the last presidential election, they showed the candidates on the front page... he said "we read from left to right... look, they put Gore on the left side of the page, and Bush after him. Alphabetically, Bush would be ahead of him, so that doesn't make any sense... they're just biased." Talk about reading too much into things. It's good and necessary to have different parties with different views. But at a certain point, the attitudes that each side gets can just be annoying. I'm independent. Has nothing to do with me fearing to believe in something, it just means I have mixed beliefs.

[fritoman]

well at least i didnt start this topic. :P

[PIX]

In all honesty I would expect Acid to act the same way regardless of what I wrote. I never said that independents were spoiled children...
I said Acid was. I truly expected someone with a signiture of "if you can read this I hate you" to be a little irate with this exchange. But in all
honesty, DON'T tell me to lay off! This is the wrong category to mother-hen anyone. Acid is a big boy and can take up for himself. He's the one
that incited this with Republicans and Democrats are both shits and that Bush is a moron. He wants to swim in the chum...he has to worry about
the sharks noticing him also.

I'm sure this thread is about to be closed anyway because it's getting too hot for television up in here.

[soulsolution]

blah blah blah lets not turn it into a flame war..i for one dont give a shit who wins..as long as they are a good leader and dont bs people

[GRITS]

Sorry I just got to reading this thread.....hate politics....I saw this coming
debates actually are less opinion and are usually more fact based but opinions are good too.

I dont want to close this topic, politics like religion get people hot....neither topic does it for me;) but other than a couple sticks and stones being thrown I think you guys have a right to banter away.... just
dont make it personal, state your opinion...stop attacking each other and stick to the topic...banter away

[PIX]

It's alright Soul....we can have a great debate here and I will still love Acid and G-Boy when we are done. If we can't get out how we feel,
then this Category is worthless. G-Boy is in a unique situation, he has conservative values but lives in a very liberal state and attends a VERY
liberal university. With that comes disipline and knowledge.

[_Acid_Head_]

How does my posts make me a spoiled child? Me not agreeing with you makes me a spoiled child I guess, the only reason I posted like I did was because you called me chickenshit, and you continue the name-calling. You are not worth my time, Republican. G-boy can keep it cool no matter how many words you throw at him, but... you know me.

[Guest]

Theres no need for closing this post, that idea is rediculous. This is a debate, not a flame war. If i say i agree with g-boy thats one thing. Im not calling a d-bag or a loser or anything, this is a debate. Anyone who is flaming should just have their post deleted, simple as that. Speaking of NRA and Pro-Life shit, geeze, dont know where to start. I bear arms, i shoot guns, yeah, big deal. NRA does shit that is not accetable on moral levels. Day after Columbine they hold a pro-gun rally. They say they are proving their freedom and blah blah. All this did was upset the families and countless victims of the columbine massacre. Then they held another pro-gun rally in Maine after a boy shot another girl for no reason, both age 6. Anyone who supports the NRA unconditionally needs to watch Bowling For Columbine, or watch it anyways, its superb. And im saying this even though im an NRA member. Wierd huh ?
Pro-Choice all the way. What about rape victims, should they be forced to have children? Why bring children into worlds where they may be neglected, abused, and hated. Why bring a child into the world whos mom was a crackhead, will be born with HIV and die before his fifth birthday? Its our choice as humans whether to bear another.
Stem Cell research relates to this. Screw Bush up his stupid white ass for limiting research on this. It isnt moral? What about killing thousands of Iraqi's, is that "moral"? Killing citizens is moral? What about all your drunk driving tickets Bush, was that Moral? Stem Cell research is yes, questionable, but screw it, IT CAN SAVE LIVES. Its not like were directly killing another person, all these pro-life people need to get their shit in order. If their pro-life why dont they realise that by stopping abortions and stem cell research they are stopping research that can save thousands of lives and help repair the damage of millions. Everythings a contradiction in America, god bless this country:D.

[_Acid_Head_]

I thought the NRA stood for safe usage of guns? Like, only in self-defense and when trully necessary? Least that's how the writters for the Simpsons made it look (they're in the NRA):P

[Guest]

That simpsons episode is the a perfect episode of flaws in the NRA. Give an idiot a gun and see what he does with it. You can be in the NRA and be for it or against it, just like Michael Moore and the creators of the Simpsons. Even the biggest supporters know when things are going to far. People who think we should be allowed to ahve fully automatic assault rifles for public sale and use? Thats not usefull in hunting, or self-defense for that matter.

[_Acid_Head_]

Right, I forgot about the whole Homer joining the NRA part :/

[PIX]

Good point Acid. The NRA originally did stand for that...and it was polluted with the same pork politics that infect most any large
organization. The reason the had rallies was NOT to say good for you shooters for not showing good personal responsiblity and
your parents not being there and knowing what you and your friends are up to. They were in response to the ready to bark anti-gun
lobbies who jumped right in and said.."SEE....this is why every American needs to turn in their guns." There is always an action/reaction
to every high level media event. It's the same thing with lawsuits now against the gun companies which blame THEM for people getting
shot. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY has gone out the door these days. Good point though Acid.:thumb: See...we can coexist.

Trippy....come on....using Bowling for Columbine as a reference guide??? Michael Moore is so one sided that even the Hollywood community
is starting to distance themselves away from him. And why give children a choice in the matter as to if they live or die? AGAIN...personal
responsibility rears its ugly head. If ADULTS would control where they plant their seed and show a little proactiveness...we wouldn't have
all of these 'unwanted' fetus' roaming around waiting to be sucked out. So they can save 1000's of lives a year with stem cell research at the
expense of terminating a life. Sounds kind of like a trade off. Kill this embryo and you can save a life. Yes, there are pro-life wackos out there
but there is extremeism on BOTH sides of the fence. As to Iraq losing 1000's of innocent people in war. I think most of those had on combat
uniforms and were playing the rules of engagement game along with us. We just aimed better. I'm sure when this war draws to a close, Saddam
will still have gassed and tortured a 1000 times more people than died on both sides of this engagement. I think you just released a couple of year's
feelings in one blast and didn't realize what you were saying...but I respect your intensity Trippy. Someone your age putting these thoughts to paper
is great for your emotional release. I'm sure if those idiots in Columbine had done the same thing, they might be alive today.

Edit.
The debate on automatic weapons is simple. It's a cascading reaction. First they take away one type of gun because its more dangerous. Next, they take away
shotguns because they are too loud on the ears. Next the take away pistols, because you can hide them too well...and so forth. It's the same thing with the
abortion issue. First you take away partial-birth abortion...next you take away other types and so forth. It is a chipping away of the current legislation and that's
why people get so antsy.

[Guest]

I love being compared to the columbine murderers lol. Thats the best thing ive heard all day PIX. Definitely a new one. Just messin, i respect what your sayin, and yeah, michael moore is a little nuts, but hes got some good points.

[PIX]

Did I compare you to THAT?????? I didn't do that!!!

[[CAKE]anonymity]

Micheal Moore is a memember of the NRA, and he stated that in the movie.

Abortion came up and heres my stance, it takes a father and a mother to create a kid, if its on a young woman (IE teenager), before marriage, then chances are that the relationship between the man and the women will not work out. If it doesnt work out, you've got a mother working her butt off, and looking for child support payments, and not attending to the best intrests of the child (IE raiseing him or her). Many people in this situation would leave the child with the grandparents, but grandparents are for babysitting, not for child support, and eventually the grandparents would try to put the responsibilty back on the mother/father, because of the fact that they are still working and quite possibly raiseing another child (younger sibling). Basically the mother cant afford the child, and it is neglected. I think this is in most situations, keeping in mind that teen pregnency is never intentional anymore. These situations are usually breeding grounds for criminals. If a child is accustomed to getting away with things, then that will most likely continue through to adulthood. There are exceptions to these cases, but i think this is how most of them go.

Then they held another pro-gun rally in Maine after a boy shot another girl for no reason, both age 6

The mother of the child was living working on a work for welfare program. While this idea seems good on paper, the mother had to travel an hour minimum (one way), and was working two jobs to make ends meat. The child and the mother was staying at the mothers brothers house when the child found a loaded gun, and brought it to school, and shoot the other girl. Bottom line is, if that gun was properly taken care of (IE not loaded or left around) then that little girl would still be alive. This case isnt a stretch, there are many "oops" cases, where someone accidently shoots somone else. Bottom line is you guys need stricter gun laws, in Canada that gun had to be kept in a locked locker and unloaded. Transportation of the gun is a whole diffrent issue which i dont feel like going into right now.

[soulsolution]

You are not worth my time, Republican.

that right there will get you some names thrown atcha

[PIX]

The male and female should use personal responsiblity to decide if they want or can have a kid before they concieve.
It is not the kid's fault that it was made. Just because they want the 'easy' life does not give them the right to whack
something that will make it more difficult. It starts with the parents or conceivers. It is completely THEIR fault. There
are very few accidental children born these days. It was usually a stupid mistake that could have been avoided if the 2
people used their damn minds before. Teens wouldn't get pregnant anymore if the parents paid more attention and
stuck to the rules they lay down. Society has also made it more acceptable for minors to engage in acts which lead to
'bad' situations. Rape, as I said eariler, is an exception...a violation of the normal rules and is delt with accordingly. If
my wife got pregnant through rape...I'd probably remove it myself.

Going back to tougher gun laws...you have to go back to the old bumper sticker that's been around for decades.
"When guns are outlawed....only outlaws will have guns." Pretty much hits home. You require guns to be in a locker at home...
that makes it very convienant to have to find your keys in the dark, unlock your guncase, load your weapon and shoot the
criminal who didn't bother to unload his weapon. If you just use some common sense and teach your kids right and wrong
and listen to them...then these things rarely happen. Kids are curious and will do stupid things. Make it hard for them to find
the answers to their curiosities...but don't sacrafice personal rights and safety in the process. Teach your kids responsible gun
safety if you own them. Take them target shooting, let them see the damage that a gun can do and the respect it deserves.
If you keep it a mystery, then that will edge them on to see wut all the fuss is about. Lastly, and you've heard this so many
times it makes you sick....."Guns don't kill people...people kill people."

[Guest]

aye man for teaching children responsible gun shooting, thats how i was brought up. And do i dream of going around killing people? Hell no, ive seen the kind of damage these bullets can do. Abortions abortions though, sure you can make certain case situations for it, but its hard to pick and choose when it comes to issues that sensitive. BTW pix whadya mean if your wife got pregnant youd "remove it yourself" ? Thats a kind of brutal method dont ya think?

[g-boy]

I'll tell you my biggest beef with the right-to-lifers. I truly and honestly think the greatest organization in this country is Planned Parenthood. And it seems one of the goals of right-to-lifers is to bring down that organization.

They also give out wrong facts. They lead you to believe that the morning-after pill is an abortion pill. The morning after pill prevents ovulation and is a great drug for anyone who made a mistake. Every woman should have it at their bedside or in the medicine cabinet or something. There's no abortion involved.

As for the NRA, it's just that they don't believe in compromise... neither do the liberals against them. I don't want to pull the 2nd amendment, but I don't want any person just having a gun if they want. I believe that everyone should go through training, take a test, have a license. We do it for cars, right? What's the problem?

Agreed, people are responsible for their mistakes. But honestly, I'd rather a kid not exist in the first place than have to go through a bad life. That being said, I don't necessarily agree with abortion because there are other options. If someone is not in a situation to properly raise a child, give it up for adoption. There are lots of willing and able parents out there who will take care of an infant. The child will have a better life. Just because the parents made a mistake shouldn't mean the child has to deal with that mistake.

I do believe in the statement that people kill people... because you know what, if it's not a legal gun, it's an illegal one, or a bomb, or a knife, or a crossbow, or whatever.

[PIX]

Damn....right on the money with the adoption thing. I forgot all about that.

I agree on the RU-7 wutever pill. It really depends on your belief on when you think life starts. If I
happen to think that oops...it might have happened...then I sure would use that pill. If it is 30 days later
and it is realized...then you better start some planning.

I agree on the license thing too on weapons. But you still have to deal with the ones who won't give a crap
and still acquire them for wrong deeds. They won't go through the testing thing anyway. I'm fixing to apply for
my carry permit next year. Qualifying and testing are really easy but it costs a little bit of cash.

[Guest]

meh, whats cash if your allowed to carry around a loaded weapon? That allows you to make cash, that is, if your intentions are bad:(. completely forgot about morning after pill, thats the perfect thing for anyone who had a "screw up" got "lost in the heat of the moment" "condom breaks" etc. Do they actually have those over here now?

[[CAKE]anonymity]

Just because they want the 'easy' life does not give them the right to whack something that will make it more difficult.

I think its easier to swallow a pill or put on a rubber thing, then go get an abortion, which is the more expensive alternative.

It was usually a stupid mistake that could have been avoided if the 2 people used their damn minds before.

adults do make mistakes, there is a mistake in my family, but my parents could afford it, so it wasnt a problem

load your weapon and shoot the criminal who didn't bother to unload his weapon

your 43 times more likely to shoot a family member then an intruder (documentary called packing heat) (have the number written down in my notes) its an american documentary.

[Guest]

Man anon you love ragging on your brothers to the south dont ya?:)

[_Acid_Head_]

Hey SS, how about you contribute something worth reading or SHUT UP?

It's a cascading reaction

I guess it's the same reason people are worried over the Patriot Act, or are you going to tell me it's not the same thing?

[g-boy]

Hold on, hold on PIX. This is exactly what I mean, the media and everything never get the facts straight. Let me set the record straight.

RU486 IS AN ABORTION PILL. If you are pregnant, you take this pill, it induces a miscarriage.

The morning after pill is more like the birth control pill, it's basically hormones. If you have a slip up, say the condom breaks or you just are drunk or something, it's a pill or series of pills that you take within 72 hours. It prevents ovulation, that is, the sperm never reaches the egg and no fertilization occurs in the first place. It's essentially emergency birth control. If you start it within 24 hours, there's like a 95% chance of preventing pregnancy, 80-something after 48 hours, and the percentage just keeps reducing the longer you wait. It is NOT an abortion pill, it prevents fertilization from occuring in the first place. There is absolutely no relationship between RU486 and the morning after pill.

[Wha?]

Gun control is like a swear filter; it wouldn't be necessary if some people weren't as stupid as they are.

That's why regulations have to be tighter. There are already too many deaths from guns for the NRA to keep this up. Their convenience is more important than the thousands of lives lost annually.


::PostScript::
A little note about the civillian deaths in Iraq: They were civillians. They weren't dressed as soldiers, they were't carrying weapons, they weren't a threat to the soldiers, they weren't doing anything to put them under the "legal to shoot" category. If you watched news from other countries, you got to see it.

[PIX]

I thought they were the same g-boy....my bad...never got opportunity to use them...lol
If I took one...would it make me shave less?

As for watching news from other countries....whats the difference....watching big network news
is practically like watching foreign news. And that Al Jazzera...now they can post some body counts I must say.

I would say that a bearded, tan guy with an AK-47 in one hand and a RPG in the other, wearing a robe and headdress
might not look like Republican Guard...but he sure as well might receive the same treatment. They had those 'civilians'
in Vietnam also...the military called them Viet Cong.