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To be honest you really didnt specifiy your ideas for this tournament untill now. Nothing is stopping you from setting one up again and set the rules to excatly the way you want them. Quite frankly you didnt do any work towards this tournament except suggesting it. I made up some rules that I think would be the best, and GRITS trusts my DM judgement. Wha made some maps to remove some of the bugs in them. We did work for a long time on getting everything ready for this tournament, as well as makeing sure the DMers who dont go to the forums, like Yoshi, severed and dragonlady know about this tournament. I just dont think suggesting it entitles you to make it excatly the way you want it. I thought one on one would be easiest for a setting up purpose and thats how all the DM matches have been. I see your point that we have to make this like a deathmatch, so I am suggesting 4 players. Tak you can set up your own tournament anyway you want, and I will partipate in it, no questions, comments or suggestions. I'm sorry that you disagree with something about the way its run, but its a lot less clear cut then an arena tournament, with many diffrent variations. Nothing is stoping us from haveing a tournament with all these varations.
The spawn rebound killing is cheap because of the following reasons: When spawning you fall and are completly defenseless during this falling, plue the time it takes to move the hit box out of the way. Tak you said you can see the disc for 1 second, the time it takes for you to fall, would be at least 3/4's of a second, plus the time it takes to move away from the disc will easily put it over a second. Makeing it impossible to dodge. The only chance you have of surviveing is by luck.
I have no problem with spam. The rebound spawn killing and spawn killing of anykind is what i hav a problem with (stated above).
Damn it, I wish people would decide whether it's going to be 1v1 as was decided at the start, or whether it's gonna be multiple.
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[CAKE Wrote:anonymity,Feb 4 2004, 07:30 PM] I am suggesting 4 players. *ahem* who suggested 4 players?:)
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4 would be more fun i think...not to mention being more efficient. then with 16, you only have to have two rounds of competition assuming you just take the top player from each match. if you take the top 2 from each round instead, you could have 3 which seems cool. there are some possibilities here.
how about the first two rounds emphasize dm play and mentality and the very last round emphasize map skill? so, with 16 players for example:
1st round: 4 matches with 4 players/match
2nd round: 1 match with top players from their respective matches
3rd round: 1v1 match with top2 players from 2nd round.
or
1st round: 4 matches w/ 4 players/match
2nd round: 2 matches, 4 players each with the top 2 players from their respective matches in the 1st round
3rd round: 1v1 using top players from 2nd round.
could be a lot of suspense with this.
To be perfectly honest...there was movement to do the dm tourney twice...but BOTH of the first arena tourneys took WAY too long and it fell apart. This is NOT
my tourney...I'm just saying how it was discussed BEFORE. We even had people sign up for it then. Gdamn...people wanted suggestions on the rules...i gave my
opinions...like everyone else did. I didn't call anyone else's opinions 'stupid' either. I gave my 'opinons' and gave the reasons behind those opinons. I ONLY took
offense to the fact that people were starting to 'dissect' the freakin simplicity of the DM playability. It's GRITS server, she pays for it, she can make the final rules.
When i said 10 per match, it was just a 'scenerio'. As we've seen in the past...a 1 vs 1 tourney takes months to finish not to mention a scheduling nightmare. This
ain't the NCAA basketball tourney...don't make it be complex like that.
Who's gonna ref the match to discredit all those 'spam' shots that are so evil? Is someone compiling the new fix to rid you of this 'horrible' tact?
CHRIST...there's only like 15 people signed up now! It shouldn't be that hard to settle the match settings for player number.
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Spawn spam is only looked down on because there is no spawn kill fix, so it will hit and kill spawns. There is no dodge that will save you if it's more than 20% into the second rebound when you spawn. Your only chance is to be in the lowest spawn of the three (yes, there are 12 spawn sites in dm1, 4 pads with stacks of 3), and the bottom of the lowest is 48 units from the pad surface, which is 12 units higher than the half-way point on a standing player. The two above are 136 and 208. Mr. 48 is fine if the disc isn't on the pad yet, but the others are downright screwed, mostly because they can't move til they hit the ground, which has 3+ discs heading there. Don't forget acceleration, either. It takes time (albeit not much) to get up to a speed that can move you out of the way of that disc. Then there are the people who shoot it so it hits people as they try to dodge.
If we have some, referees would help with that. They could keep track of ill-gotten points, though that wouldn't help the spawnees who now have to wait longer to get points again. Also: what's going on with the dkill fix? That's another type of spawn kill, and happens accidentally more often than a spawn rebound.
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um hey guys I guess I will sigh up I just only hope that I dojn't miss it incase if I have to work late or go to a different day or what not and so fourth I just don't want to upset anyone if anything I think the best time for me will be Monday-Friday and thats it umm in Cali time zone lol so umm maby 5 pm or later jsut letting u guys know in case if that helps any how.:)
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Oh about tags, can me and DragonLady have the [DTC] tag on our names, thanks. Oh and yoshi wants to sign-up for this tourny. His post is in the validating forum. Grits you talked to yoshi in the server. How many people does that make now?
<@Miagi> !8 Am I spamming?
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Fo jesus sake i've been waiting so long for this thing... Count me in for sure i can't wait i'm super cyked...
Expect to see me under a new name soon (other than Yoshi), i'm gunna be giving it some though, but you'll be able to recognize me by my mad pimped out spray. Can't wait to compete, and i'll do my best to give you all a run for your money...
Sev i want you in 2... Come back to playing rico for god sakes. I wanna see how i scale up to you... anyways
peace
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Quote:a 1 vs 1 tourney takes months to finish not to mention a scheduling nightmare
The scheduling will be worse with 4 players play at one time, rather then two. There were a lot of scheduleing problems with a few of the players on the last tourney which I wont get into right now.
As far as disicting DM playablilty, we are working quite hard to make sure it is played fairly and that the best DMers make it the furthest. I dont think there is any DMer who has played as consitantly or faithfully as wha. What better person to make a dm tournament for dmers? Most games have spawn protection in some form. The only game that arguably doesnt is HLDM, and that gives you a pistol to defend yourself.
The referee can be anyone who is avaliable to spectate the match. I'll spectate some, I'm sure there are people willing to ensure that it is played fairly.
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I'm in for this dm tourney.
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*Comes out of the darkness*
Hi everyone.... i would like to sign up for the dm1 tourny:)
*Heads back into the darkness*
Wha?,Feb 4 2004, 08:27 PM Wrote:Spawn spam is only looked down on because there is no spawn kill fix, so it will hit and kill spawns. There is no dodge that will save you if it's more than 20% into the second rebound when you spawn. Your only chance is to be in the lowest spawn of the three (yes, there are 12 spawn sites in dm1, 4 pads with stacks of 3), and the bottom of the lowest is 48 units from the pad surface, which is 12 units higher than the half-way point on a standing player. The two above are 136 and 208. Mr. 48 is fine if the disc isn't on the pad yet, but the others are downright screwed, mostly because they can't move til they hit the ground, which has 3+ discs heading there. Don't forget acceleration, either. It takes time (albeit not much) to get up to a speed that can move you out of the way of that disc. Then there are the people who shoot it so it hits people as they try to dodge.
If we have some, referees would help with that. They could keep track of ill-gotten points, though that wouldn't help the spawnees who now have to wait longer to get points again. Also: what's going on with the dkill fix? That's another type of spawn kill, and happens accidentally more often than a spawn rebound. There was a way to stop being spawn killed... unfortunately... we 'fixed' it...
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This is getting madly outta hand, just by reading the posts... Too many people have a say on the rules... Rule making should just be reserved to a small group of people, that way there's less disagreement. Obviously everyone will have a different opinion on spamming and spawning etc.. so just suck it up and play with the rules given to you. I'm for any rules so long as i get to play. If spawning is legal than so be it i'll be spawned and spawn people myself... If i'm required to fall off the map every second kill for some magical reason i'll do it.. i don't care.. just set this thing up with a few strict rules and some in-game referees and let's play!
peace
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Quote:There was a way to stop being spawn killed... unfortunately... we 'fixed' it...
what fix are you reffering to?
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i'm in, also, saw acid head on tonite, strangely he didn't say hi to me, hmmmm, must have been our differences on the super bowl, you think?
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Soon as I'm done on a rather big project I am working on right now, I will throw everything into working on the rules... seeing as how I kind of deleted all the ones we had before.. ummmm whoops :D
These rules are not final by any chance, the admins have to talk about them and agree what it fair.
If you don't play your match by a given time 1 of 2 things will happen... Either an alternate person from earlier round of the people that failed to win the round before will be chosen OR an alternate from a list of alternates will be chosen. The alternate people will all be given a number from 1 and up, then a roll of the dice will take place and who evers number comes up will be it. I have dice that go upto 100 so this will be very easy to do.
If a person does not show up for the assigned match at the agreed upon time the person who shows up will win automatically, unless that person would like to set up an alternate match.
There will be NO respawn killing
There will be NO double hitting
(the above 2 rules will be expanded on later once we admins talk about them)
Matches will be at least 15 minutes long (maybe longer if there are ties)
Matches will be done in deathmatch mode seeing as how this is a deathmatch tournament.
As I said these rules are not final and there are more to come. All rules will be posted up in a rules section that I won't be able to so easily delete next time when I'm half a sleep and should be paying more attention. :rolleyes::blsh:
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thats when you hit a dead lump and it knocks him off when he spawns
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The spawn killing should be expanded to if you are the spawnee as well, since there is no risk of being killed when you spawn, you shouldnt kill someone who is right their a you spawn.
[CAKE Wrote:anonymity,Feb 6 2004, 03:47 PM] The spawn killing should be expanded to if you are the spawnee as well, since there is no risk of being killed when you spawn, you shouldnt kill someone who is right their a you spawn. Oh you have to be kidding me. This is getting worse than political correctness! On the one hand, you can't kill someone till they move... on the other hand, if someone's stood on your platform and you move.. they can kill you but you're not allowed to fire?!
Until these rules are decided upon properly, count me out for now. It's getting too silly with all the suggestions, it's changing the basic flow of the game and so it won't be deathmatch anymore, it'll be a small subset thereof.
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What is your idea of the basic flow of the game?
Yeah your right, there shouldn't be any rules that allow people a fair chance... (sarcasm in case you didn't pick it up)
Rules are set so that the game will be fair. I agree with yoshi though.
I agree since you aren't allowed to spawn kill, spawnees shouldn't kill the person next to them because the opponent didn't see them.
I don't know about you, but I can't tell where someone is going to spawn next.
I have no idea how many times I was killed all because I don't kill people who spawn right away and sometimes I didn't see them spawn there. Oh ok I know what this is about now:D. Anyway why can't people just use common decency when playing?
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ok my two cents
I have to agree with Miagi here
the people in the tournament are regulars not the jerks that come in to spawn kill. I think the spamming is a judgement call...like push disk use in arena .....first level spamming is a player's style. I appreciate the style of the [CAKE] guys and the other DM regulars like Miagi et al.... more than I do the lame "I just keep shooting and someone will run into my disk" (you know who you are)style of play...but it is a personal style and the way they rack up points. I will make the rules up this weekend...nice thing about DM is we can put a referee in as a spectator to disqualify bad sportsmanship. I want to start the tournament before the end of the month.
Quote:Yeah your right, there shouldn't be any rules that allow people a fair chance...
Reading into this sarcasm...i deduce that people playing a normal DM game at a normal time have no chance
of getting a fair game if people play like they do everyday and follow the built in rules of ricochet???
Kinda like saying for a sports championship: "okay men...we gonna take away the dunks because some of the shorter guys can't reach it" "Sorry guys, we have to take away free throws because some people can't see the backboard." "Next
you fellas can't run but walk only; a few guys are too slow to keep up."
When you are done....you have nothing left of the original game.
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The good old where do we draw the line argument, fallitical in the fact that we are changeing one thing, not everything. Lets keep the topic at the issue at hand and not jump to rash conclusions that we will start takeing discs out of the game. The fact is people kill the person around them when they spawn because of fear they will get spawn killed. I can tell you from experiance about playing a normal ricochet game with out spawn killing, its nice. Where have I played these games? Lan parties with the CAKE guys. As far as spawn killing being like the spam in areana, thats more fallitical then taks "miscellaneous" argument stated above. THERE IS A TIMER IN ARENA WHICH PREVENTS SPAWN KILLING!!
We are against the spawn rebound killing not because you are shooting more then one disc, because you are killing people who have no chance, and i mean no chance of survival, no matter how good they are.
The reason I am suggesting that a spawnee not kill someone beside them because of a fear of being spawn killed is so that someone who doesnt spawn kill, avoids punishment.
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