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I don't think I know the definition of 'cheater'...Charles Karult had a 29 year love affair with a woman while he was married. I don't know the reasons behind why he never left his wife..but he had to have loved two women if they both felt as loved as they profess to be. If he loved them both does that mean cheating is just a physical offense by definition?
Are thoughts about 'cheating' actually cheating? Catholic Church says if you sin in your heart then you have sinned. What if in your heart you truly do not feel like it is a sin...is that ignorance or devine guidance?
Guess it all comes down to existing circumstances in the end and you never really know what you would do until the situation presents itself to you.
Someone who habitually cheats... cheater??? Karult habitually cheated but it was with the same woman. If religious and moral laws were different I am sure he would have married them both....guess I am not the one to try and answer this one...since all I keep doing it coming up with more questions....wish it was cut and dry but I will have to agree with g-boy...shades of gray and undefined parameters when it comes to human emotions...make it pretty difficult to give a definitive answer
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I think if anything, the emotion behind cheating is up to the one being cheated on. Like I said, personally it would feel terrible if I was being cheated on, there is this sickening feeling....
So I guess if a woman is cool with it (I very much doubt she would be, more like she is hiding it to appease him or something), then maybe it's not so much cheating as just questionable morals. Generally something like that would destroy any relationship, but I suppose there are exceptions.
I don't mean to say that it's ok as long as you don't get caught. I mean IF your partner were to know, what feelings it would invoke. If you have to lie about something, obviously it should be questioned and it very well could be wrong. I also think actions are different than thoughts... everyone has devious thoughts, at some time or another. So thinking about cheating... as long as you don't do it, think or fantasize away. Once again, it's like masturbation... generally the fantasy is not about your partner/spouse.
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05-29-2003, 05:27 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-29-2003, 05:28 PM by GRITS.)
lets elaborate on your definition a little
"If you have to lie about something, obviously it should be questioned and it very well could be wrong.
it's like masturbation... generally the fantasy is not about your partner/spouse. "
do you plan to tell your significant other that you masturbate while thinking of someone else? If the answer is no....is that because it may hurt them? (ok not to the point of destroying a relationship but you never know maybe it would).....but then by your definition isnt thinking about cheating =cheating?
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Heh, Shades of Gray? On one of My Topics?! Noooooo. :lol:
I think there has already been some great points made in just the few posts you all have left. I agree with Soul, Gboy: Great post to kick it off.
And I really think your example is great for the debate, too Grits. Here is an instance of... justafiable cheating?!
G-Boy had an interesting statement in his post about this, too.
"So let's say it's early, there are rocky times, that kind of stuff. That's possible to get over."
I understand this logic, for the one instance that hides in my past is summed up by your very statement, G. You know what, though? It happened in the 3rd week and we never got past it. It plagued us throughout the 2 year union. And indeed it was the trust issue that would creep back at uncomfortable times. Ya know... like mid fight when it seemed there was no more current ammo to toss? I am out of valid points, so better bring up the 3rd week thing! lol Many of you can relate.
With this said, let me bring out another question. ((I am not abandoning the old, please still discuss them, too))
1. Why don't You cheat? Is it a principal (sp?), meaning you simply don't do it because cheating is wrong? Or is it love/respect, meaning you simply don't want to hurt this person you are with?
I am not saying it can't be both, but what seems to be the bigger deturrent for you?
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Well, like I said between those two statements GRITS... thoughts are different than actions. I guess masturbation is technically an action, but my point was about the fantasizing part. As we talk about shades of gray... most women aren't going to be bothered by a man taking care of his business... as long as he does it in private. I doubt they really wanna hear about it. And I think whatever fantasies he uses are his own business, like I said, as long as he doesn't act on those fantasies. If a woman is seriously bothered by male self-satisfaction, she would be considered uptight by many people in society. A woman bothered by her partner going around with another woman would be justified in her feelings, in the eyes of most. So... I do see a rather large difference. Rephrase maybe? If you have to lie about your ACTIONS, those actions are probably wrong. I don't consider not telling your partner about your masturbatory sessions, as lying... it would be like saying you are lying by not telling her every time you had to go number 2.
BTW Beastie, it's spelled principle :P
Obviously I'd say both. Principle just because it's something that goes against society and morals. One has to conform to society in some ways. But I would say the bigger reason is respect. The golden rule... imagine how you would feel if she did it to you.
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Well it would seem obvious to many that Both is the correct answer. It should seem to many more that at Least One should be enough not to cheat.
Alotta should's and would's. Couldn't we all just follow logic?
BUT.... people do still cheat, A LOT of people in fact. So logic is flawed.
Why is this? Any theories about just why we can't just livehappily with our chosen partners? If you have cheated, fess up and tell us why!! If you want, pmail it to me in private and I will quote your post anyonomously under my own name.
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05-30-2003, 07:20 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-30-2003, 07:20 PM by g-boy.)
It's mostly guys who cheat. Guys are horny... lots of guys are stupid... bad combination. Throw in a pinch of ######, a dash of nice rack, and you got a cheater. I think sometimes women will cheat because they are so emotional, and get completely charmed by some guy and compare the charmer to their current partner... and I guess they go for it. Any other case of a woman cheating is usually either substance related or they are just historically promiscuous or chaotic. Some people will purposely cheat to sabotage a relationship... sometimes subconsciously... but I don't wanna get into psychology right now.
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I am going to go on a limb here and say the idea of 'guys cheat more' is completely untrue. In fact I am going to modify and say that Guys get caught more.
It made national news when Oprah proclaimed that women cheat in fact a tiny bit more than men.
Since moving to Vegas, I see it even More! I know many cheating females, more so than guys. Perhaps it is because I work with women and not too many men. But still...
I have no points here, just observations and felt they are valid.
Continue... lol
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For every person that cheats, they are cheating with someone. Know your partner, you are responsible
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05-30-2003, 08:42 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-30-2003, 08:42 PM by GRITS.)
I hate to be the one to break it to you guys but women get horny too even if they dont have a history of promiscuouness....why would you not think a woman would need the same 'release' as a man? want to feel the same pleasures as a man?
Unless you are saying a woman cheats with someone she wants to have a relationship with and a man cheats because he is looking for a piece of ass. Then I would have to agree I have not met any women who would cheat just to get laid but I bet they are out there.
again I think it has to do with individuals and circumstances....we shouldnt generalize
Cheating....dont think I ever get a clear definition of the word before I got off topic...sorry.:blsh:
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I've got a drawer full of D-size batteries....;)
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What is this, topic #6 already? Man, time flies! Anyway, I am going to jump away from relationships for a bit and head back into the game for a week or two. Since we have evolving technology, there may be ways to solve some of the game's existing problems.
Recently there have been innovations from the friendly crew who runs the show for us on Vad's and in the forums. Apparently the reconnecting issue may soon be history, and we soon may have a permenant gag option.
I for one would much prefer to be permenantly Llama'd than gagged :lol: however the mandatory silence is an intersting idea!
We have a list of banned players who have been so for either behavior or language. Sure, there are other details involved (tone, motive, confrontation, etc), but really when it boils down to it, these people either DID or SAID something to set the banning wheels in motion. Action almost always equals reconnections. Language is more complex in some cases.
Language is of course something that individuals can ignore. It is called mute. We all know that. But if somone is such that many or all would at some point have muted, might it be better if we can go the other way? ie Permanantly Gag the player? Or maybe even for a week, ten days, a month?
And we all hate reconnectors, it's nothing that needs to be explained.
If the issue is fixed, meaning all are sent into spectate upon server entry, would it be ok to Unban the players who were removed previously for doing so?
1. Does this new technology possibly perhaps welcome a refreshing second chance to those who have been banned in the past? Could we clear the list and see what happens, now with new options?
2. Would you enjoy playing with a player who has been perma-gagged, even if you had enjoyed conversation with the player in the past? Would his/her muted presence take from his/her identity in the community?
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06-17-2003, 12:31 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-17-2003, 12:44 PM by GRITS.)
Sorry no one has really picked up on this debate...guess it was carried out in other forums under other disguises....
I personally think it is a nice alternative to permanent banning of good players with profane vocabularies
A lot of good players hardly talk at all...Master_Fin being the first one that comes to mind...[CAKE]rUsh being another....so other than the obvious ostracism I don't think it would affect the play as much and would be a lot easier to 'pardon' them at a later date because the banning 'ritual' is a last resort for habitual infractions. Maybe permanent gags would be a better reprimand that could be rescinded after a 'cool off' time
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I think MASTER_FIN just doesn't talk because he doesn't know English very well. I think the only word he learned was "######" as he loves calling me "###### boy"
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