04-21-2004, 02:22 PM
Just wanna point out something about beliefs and science and religion. There is no science vs. religion war, except for the people who want there to be one. There is NO relationship between them, as God and religion are untestable. Science tends to describe things that can be falsified... that is, things that are possible to prove wrong. That is he goal of science, to test hypotheses to see if they are wrong, not if they are right.
In fact, for most scientists, the idea is that nothing can be proven right. Though we repeatedly see that gravity works and most certainly exists, someday we may find something to prove it wrong, even if it most likely will not happen. Any theory or "law" or "fact" of science works like this. So if you're saying something doesn't exist because no evidence exists for it... that does not work in science. You have to attempt to falsify it, but there is no way you can do that for God. You cannot ask for evidence when there is none to look for in the first place.
Realize that God is a belief, and beliefs are the only things that can be true or false. Science, there are NO truths, they can be reversed at any time (Earth used to be flat, supersonic flight used to be impossible, etc etc.). A belief is personal and is up to the individual. If someone believes in God, you CANNOT prove whether they are right or wrong. A favorite color or favorite anything are also pretty much untestable because they are beliefs, and are not the same for everyone. If you've seen the movie "Contact" recall a scene where Jodie Foster's character is trying to explain to Matthew McConnaghey (sp?) that it's more likely that God doesn't exist and people just created Him than His actual existence, and that there is simply no evidence, no proof. He replies to her:
"Did you love your father?" "Of course I did" "Prove it."
That being said, it is not cool to tell someone that their beliefs are wrong, because no one's beliefs are wrong. They are up to them, because they are a BELIEF, not science. Let people believe what they want. This, by the way, is the main reason I am not too fond of religion, because many make it a point to tell me that my belief of balance and personal philosophies are wrong and that the Bible is right. I will go to Hell if I don't think Jesus is God... I've said it many times before, what about people that simply cannot know? Other religions are WRONG? What if there is some tribesman in Africa that has no opportunity to have even heard of Christ? He's going to Hell too?
I also find it interesting of this simple fact... I'd say a very large portion of those who are atheist or agnostic are scientists (don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying all or even a majority) simply because scientific minds work with math and logic, and that makes them prone to not trusting the Bible or having faith or they just need some kind of evidence. It's how their mind works, not their fault. So God created these people with these minds and is going to punish them for having mathematical/logical minds, even though they are some the greatest and most beneficial minds?
By the way, evolution doesn't make it a point to debunk religion, it's just an observation that has been tested over and over, has been revised many times over the past century, and seems to be the best explanation. Sure it can change, but is best right now. Darwin just pointed things out, he didn't create the entire theory of evolution as we know it now, just opened the door. Much like Freud in psychology, we know much of what he thought was inaccurate, but at least it started things. Dinosaurs existed. They evolved into birds. Prehistoric mammals evolved into the mammals we know of today. All vertebrates potentially came from a very small almost worm-like creature. It's just how things appear through repeated experiments, and humans have been around a hell of a lot longer than the Bible says (and did not always look the same, and did not start from two). I'm not sure why scientists, especially evolutionary biologists, are so offensive to certain religious people. They're supposed to ignore everything because religion says otherwise? It doesn't, and shouldn't, work like that. Same thing goes for SETI and astrobiologists seeking to find life elsewhere... just because some religions and some interpretations of religion say that there is no way life is off the planet Earth does not mean that people shouldn't look for it, and it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Let them do their work, and if they are right, it is the most profoundly significant thing in recent human history... don't call it a waste because you fear what they may find.
In fact, for most scientists, the idea is that nothing can be proven right. Though we repeatedly see that gravity works and most certainly exists, someday we may find something to prove it wrong, even if it most likely will not happen. Any theory or "law" or "fact" of science works like this. So if you're saying something doesn't exist because no evidence exists for it... that does not work in science. You have to attempt to falsify it, but there is no way you can do that for God. You cannot ask for evidence when there is none to look for in the first place.
Realize that God is a belief, and beliefs are the only things that can be true or false. Science, there are NO truths, they can be reversed at any time (Earth used to be flat, supersonic flight used to be impossible, etc etc.). A belief is personal and is up to the individual. If someone believes in God, you CANNOT prove whether they are right or wrong. A favorite color or favorite anything are also pretty much untestable because they are beliefs, and are not the same for everyone. If you've seen the movie "Contact" recall a scene where Jodie Foster's character is trying to explain to Matthew McConnaghey (sp?) that it's more likely that God doesn't exist and people just created Him than His actual existence, and that there is simply no evidence, no proof. He replies to her:
"Did you love your father?" "Of course I did" "Prove it."
That being said, it is not cool to tell someone that their beliefs are wrong, because no one's beliefs are wrong. They are up to them, because they are a BELIEF, not science. Let people believe what they want. This, by the way, is the main reason I am not too fond of religion, because many make it a point to tell me that my belief of balance and personal philosophies are wrong and that the Bible is right. I will go to Hell if I don't think Jesus is God... I've said it many times before, what about people that simply cannot know? Other religions are WRONG? What if there is some tribesman in Africa that has no opportunity to have even heard of Christ? He's going to Hell too?
I also find it interesting of this simple fact... I'd say a very large portion of those who are atheist or agnostic are scientists (don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying all or even a majority) simply because scientific minds work with math and logic, and that makes them prone to not trusting the Bible or having faith or they just need some kind of evidence. It's how their mind works, not their fault. So God created these people with these minds and is going to punish them for having mathematical/logical minds, even though they are some the greatest and most beneficial minds?
By the way, evolution doesn't make it a point to debunk religion, it's just an observation that has been tested over and over, has been revised many times over the past century, and seems to be the best explanation. Sure it can change, but is best right now. Darwin just pointed things out, he didn't create the entire theory of evolution as we know it now, just opened the door. Much like Freud in psychology, we know much of what he thought was inaccurate, but at least it started things. Dinosaurs existed. They evolved into birds. Prehistoric mammals evolved into the mammals we know of today. All vertebrates potentially came from a very small almost worm-like creature. It's just how things appear through repeated experiments, and humans have been around a hell of a lot longer than the Bible says (and did not always look the same, and did not start from two). I'm not sure why scientists, especially evolutionary biologists, are so offensive to certain religious people. They're supposed to ignore everything because religion says otherwise? It doesn't, and shouldn't, work like that. Same thing goes for SETI and astrobiologists seeking to find life elsewhere... just because some religions and some interpretations of religion say that there is no way life is off the planet Earth does not mean that people shouldn't look for it, and it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Let them do their work, and if they are right, it is the most profoundly significant thing in recent human history... don't call it a waste because you fear what they may find.