Tobacco

[[CAKE]anonymity]

I found out earlier today that our provincial government is promoting smoking on one hand, and then trying to get people to quit. They're paying a spokesperson to promote it, and paying for warning labels on cigarette packages. Hypocrisy or compromise?

BTW this is a liberal government, we got pretty tired of the conservative government.

[g-boy]

I've been seeing commercials from Phillip Morris about having a website for learning how to quit. Yet they are one of the biggest tobacco companies around. That's hypocrisy.

[Guest]

You should see my smoking thread that I did earlier... but to save time... here's the link

[[CAKE]anonymity]

net: :/

It would be interesting to see this website gboy. I think its probably a marketing thing to make the company not look as evil, after all tobacco companies are under constant pressure by many organizations. They also know that many people who quit, often go back to smoking again, because of the cravings. If they get them to start and ultimatley quit thats still quite a bit of revenue on buying cigs.

[Wha?]

Promoting smoking should be the job of the company. The government is there to act in the best interest of people, so it should be making the opposite effort.

[Guest]

You really think the tobacco companies want you to quit smoking?? They HAVE to have the quit smoking commercials to cover
their butts legally. They have to show they are doing the 'responsible' thing.

BTW...why is your government promoting smoking?? They are probably getting kickbacks for this from the moneypeople.

I do get tired of those antismoking commercials you see every day now. They act like we as responsible adults are so stupid and don't know the 'truth'. Choices are made and people have to live with them. Sure it's an 'addictive' substance...but good grief people...show a little willpower and get over it. My mom quit cold turkey after 35 years of smoking. She's no superhero so I know others can. Teenagers smoke cuz it STILL looks cool in their eyes to be a rebel.
They don't realize that it smells bad and yellows your teeth till they see it from a growup's eyes.

[_Acid_Head_]

Guess what? Another good reason to take over other countries' governments is to expand tobacco exports, it happened to South Korea and most likely is being promoted in Iraq.

I forget what other country was forced into taking american brand tobacco, but basically the U.S. said that if they didn't let them promote their cigs in their country, then all imports and exports would stop between them (which would destroy the other country's economy), I studied this in History but I forgot the details:(

[[CAKE]anonymity]

BTW...why is your government promoting smoking?? They are probably getting kickbacks for this from the moneypeople.

Yeah, there was a deficit left be the previous government (according to the new one).

For the PSA's, I always remembered them being geared towards the kids and not the adults. Its an addictive drug that doesnt make quiting easy. You know how lazy people are, do you really think they will work and work hard on improving their health by quitting smoking? Most people are too lazy to go to the gym every once and awhile, yet you write off quiting an addictive drug.

I'm also curious about who is a smoker, exsmoker, never smoked ect, so if you like please tell us. I am a non smoker, have never smoked one.

[Guest]

I use tobacco...
I don't smoke though.
I have used it for a year now...loved the rush of that morning nicotine...made my hair crawl.
Now I crave it right after eating. I quit for 3 weeks when i got the flu, but I still wanted it and
enjoyed the feeling. So I started back.

Can't be a big redneck without the tobacco man!!!

[GRITS]

YUK!!!!
nuff said

[g-boy]

Dip and chewing tobacco in some ways are worse than cigarettes...
I don't smoke, never have.

And tak, your point is well made about the truth commercials and the responsible adult thing... I don't believe those commercials are directed at responsible adults. They are directed at younger audiences and the irresponsible ones (believe it or not, there are some really stupid people out there that perhaps these commercials do shed some light). The angle they use often is not necessary to be informative, but to gross some people out, like saying there is urea and battery acid in cigarettes. I know the commercials can be dumb and annoying at times, but I support the idea.

[[CAKE]anonymity]

In Canada our government pays for health care. Why they would promote smoking knowing full well it will put a larger drain on our already drained health care system (a few months after SARS mind you) is beyond me. Do the takes made on smoking balance out to the amount of time spent in the hospital as a result of it? I highly doubt it.

[Guest]

anonymity,Feb 9 2004, 07:56 PM] net: :/

It would be interesting to see this website gboy. I think its probably a marketing thing to make the company not look as evil, after all tobacco companies are under constant pressure by many organizations. They also know that many people who quit, often go back to smoking again, because of the cravings. If they get them to start and ultimatley quit thats still quite a bit of revenue on buying cigs.

What is the :/ for ? I think it gives a good demonstration if in an outlandish way, of the causes effects and reactions that can trigger events all due to a single action for want of an item.

[kermit]

i feel like that guy in the flash cartoon. trying to quit and there are people out there who seem so free with a coffee in one hand and a cig in another. that's how it seems anyways. i try to tell myself they are miserable but they are all smiling and laughing...argh!!! i've made it no secret that i've been smoking for 12 years. i went all christmas break (3 weeks) without a cig and damnit i started up again when school started...thought i could handle just one and damn, i didn't realize how bad it tasted. it sucks because i felt like i finally beat it but then i backslided. the first two weeks without a cig were horrible. i couldn't get up in the mornings, slept 12-14 hours a day and showered infrequently. i had zero motivation and only stayed in my home the whole time...i guess the nicotine was masking my depression and social anxiety the whole time. the third week was feeling really good though. i felt physically better and everything smelled better. my head felt clearer and i had a lot of energy coming back that i didn't have before. i felt like i could be myself. then i ruined it.-_-

i recently joined the utah quitnet and it provides a forum for smokers who don't wish to be. non-smokers don't generally understand what it feels like or how hard it is to quit especially for those of us who use smoking as a coping mechanism. i'm planning on setting my quit date this friday, making it official on quitnet and get support from people in my position. i know i'm going to have to force myself to get up in the mornings and do things that i don't really feel like doing...like homework and exams and what not. my biggest fear is that i'll quit smoking at the expense of my grades and it feels so damn risky...if i can't concentrate on my studies, i'm screwed...but i really want to graduate from university (this is my last semester) a non-smoker.

[GRITS]

I'm impressed .asm...good luck:thumb:

[fritoman]

I smoked for 25 years, got tired of the smokers hack and gave it up, I was also tired of smoking period so it was easier for me this time, I have "quit" many times in the past just to go back to it and smoke even more to make up for lost time. "was up to 3 packs a day" now I chew skoal, yep it is bad for you but, if you are going to use tobbacco then I think chewing is the best way to go because your quality of life is better before you die from it. you dont quit smoking because someone else tells you that it is bad because every smoker has been told that repeatedly over the course of thier smoking career, the best way to get people to stop is to grandfather the old smokers in and dont let anyone else start, give the old smokers a card to carry and when they all die off then we will be rid of smoking forever,

smoking was the stupiest most dumbass thing I started in my life and I am so glad I have stopped.

[[CAKE]anonymity]

Congats to all that have quit and who are trying to quit. Congrats to those who have never started, like GRITS and I. I dont think smoking has this cool look, or non cool look. If anything its non cool:

YUK!!!!
nuff said

From the little I know about women, i can say that the non smoking women prefer non smoking men. This is just a general trend that I have noticed. I always thought of it as being nuetral on the cool scale, which made it easier for me to say no when offered one. Never recived any pressures to do it, and didnt give anyone crap for doing it because like I, they know of the health issues as well.

Frito is right. We need to either say yes or no to smoking. The choice is, do you want a drug that damges your lungs, plus the lungs around you. Or just use it as a way or relieving a bit of stress.

[Guest]

Actually...alcohol is better for relieving stress. Smokes to a new user cause stimulation
and will agitate the stress. To a veteran user...you HAVE to intake the nicotine to relieve
the stress caused by it's daily decline in the system.

Ewww Frito...Skoal??? I tried it and didn't like the taste. I got hooked on Kodiak. Little 'sweeter'
taste. Also packaged here in Memphis...wait...I think Skoal is too.

Guy I work with was involved in the product design for Kodiak. He said if I ever saw how they handle
the stuff....I'd quit in a second. First he says that all the tobacco used in dip is waste from the tobacco lines.
They just sweep it off the lines into seperate piles. It sits open in a warehouse with no covering and bugs and
'other' things get in it normally. He said there are bugs and worms in each can...you just don't notice them.
He also said the workers walk in these tobacco piles during the work day in boots and they wear these boots around
the plant....even to the bathroom and come back out and keep on walkin. I told him to zip it....I wanted to hear
no more.:wacko:

[Wha?]

If you've ever been around a campfire, you know how horribly painful the smoke is when it gets in your eyes (CO2 + H2O --> H2CO3), and how much worse it is if you get some in your lungs. Then you go anywhere and see people willingly inhaling that smoke, it doesn't make sense. Somehow, marketers managed to make inhaling smoke look like a good thing, and even though people starting hack up a lung with every puff, they still continue. I suppose that's the power of image and positioning.

[Guest]

uhh...that would be carbonic acid... You breathe in CO2 every day along with the other makeups in air. The main bad boy in smoke is CO, which is carbon monoxide.
Smoke from ciggs is comprised of approximately 12% particulate matter (solids and liquids) and 88% gases. Generally, it is those solids that make your eyes hurt
in fireplace smoke. Carbon monoxide is a colorless, odorless, tasteless gas.

[Wha?]

I'm saying the connection isn't in people heads. Anyway, the [CO2] in air is rather small in comparison with smoke, where it's a product of combustion. CO is a product of incomplete combustion, and is only problematic in large amounts, since it binds to hemoglobin far more readily than O2, and isn't so much toxic as it is an oxygen displacer.

[Guest]

Found another info site on it:

Tobacco Smoke

Tobacco smoke is made up of  “sidestream smoke” from the burning tip of the cigarette and  “mainstream smoke” from the filter or mouth end. Tobacco smoke contains thousands of different chemicals which are released into the air as particles and gases. Many toxins are present in higher concentrations in sidestream smoke than in mainstream smoke and, typically, nearly 85% of the smoke in a room results from sidestream smoke. [4] The particulate phase includes nicotine, "tar" (itself composed of many chemicals), benzene and benzo(a)pyrene. The gas phase includes carbon monoxide, ammonia, dimethylnitrosamine, formaldehyde, hydrogen cyanide and acrolein. Some of these have marked irritant properties and some 60, including benzo(a)pyrene and dimethylnitrosamine, have been shown to cause cancer. One study has established the link between smoking and lung cancer at the cellular level. It found that a substance in the tar of cigarettes, benzo(a)pyrene diol epoxide (BPDE), damages DNA in a key tumour suppresser gene. [5]



What is tar?

“Tar”, also known as total particulate matter, is inhaled when the smoker draws on a lighted cigarette.  In its condensate form, tar is the sticky brown substance which can stain smokers’ fingers and teeth yellow-brown.  All cigarettes produce tar but the brands differ in amounts.  The average tar yield of British cigarettes (as measured by a standard machine method by the Government Chemist) has declined from about 30mg per cigarette in the period 1955‑61 to 11mg today.  There have also been reductions in nicotine (from an average of about 2mg in 1955‑61 to about 0.9mg by 1996). [6] [7]

[[CAKE]anonymity]

We know that smoking is very unhealthy, I dont think anyone hear has questioned that.

What I am upset about is my government being so hypocritical about it. Granted I want them to get rid of smoking, but I also know they wont because of the revenue they recive. As well as their apparent lack of a spine. In a perfect world, we would have either no smoking or no diseases as a result of them. So what would be easier, curing all the diseases caused by smoking or getting rid of it?

[kermit]

i wouldn't outlaw smoking, in general, because i think cigar and pipe smoking is fine and the health risks (if smoked properly; primarily meaning not often and not inhaling into the lungs) are quite neglible. plus i feel i should have a right to my own body and i believe in personal responsibility. so, not only do i think it's fine, but i think it can be a rather constructive and pleasurable hobby. most of you wouldn't appreciate the differences and would rather ignorantly bash tobacco use in all it's forms, so i won't go into them.

everyone knows the risks of cig smoking by now, but these messages are delivered poorly. consider the ad with the woman smoking a cig from the hole in her neck. well, yes, that's bad but when kids see smokers out and about smiling, laughing sipping from their coffee....seeminingly having no trachiotomy scars, they put two and two together and get that becomming like the woman in the ad is rare and that these smokers they encounter are unconcerned with the risks probably because the risks are so low as to be akin to being hit by a public bus at noon. i admit that the ad is mainly to target morons like me who have long started (i hope) but still. you know what would of scared me from starting? grabbing a couple of smokers at random off the street and have them come into my middle school health class and have them tallk about how smoking now dominates their life and the decisions they often make now revolve around getting their next fix. being a literal slave to an inanimate substance is far scarier to me than the remote chance of having a lung removed.

still, don't be so militant about it. accept that people are going to either do foolish things or are going to perhaps enjoy something you may not personally like. it's not tobacco, it's about people abusing tobacco. generally, cig smokers and dip chewers abuse tobacco like a binge drinker with a 24-pack of coors light while cigar and pipe smokers appreciate tobacco like a fine wine.

i have a friend who loves cigars. it's his hobby. he spends the money on aquiring primo cigars and likes to smoke one every friday while lounging in his hot tub, sipping a martini listening to talk radio. he's a teacher at an urban high school and that's how he unwinds...and the idea of that becomming illegal is enough to make me fiercely vomit. :huh:

[DragonLady23]

It's sad that you really want to do good and try to stop but how can it help wayyyy over pricing the gum or the patches or little programs on tv saying we are here fro you, we care all you have to do is pay 75 to 80 bucks depending on what plan you go on, **** that they know you will die or get cancer or what else all in the same company are all the same you got about a billion smokers and only half will maby want to quit so they promote the danger of smoking people want to quit but need help BAMB they go to the over priced patches or gum or inhalers hell more money for them. Tobacco companies will never stop and they will just come up with more ways to come up with different non smoking items to use and over price I can only hope that I QUIT COLD TURKEY with a help from a friend that quit like that I think thats the best way to go only help I believe thats real with a freind that stopped and is there to help. Thats just my thoughts on it :/

[Guest]

Eventually things will become so much like Demolition Man that even salt and sugar will disappear:P I was on the train tonight and a friend yawned, I told him that'd be the next thing to be banned in public as a) it's contagious (everyone knows that) andB)who wants to be on the end of all that exhaled sleepiness.

[fritoman]

if tobacco was tobacco I wouldnt have a problem with selling it but it isnt, it is a ton of chemicals that I wouldnt rub on my skin let alone inhale into my lungs, what they have done over the years is added chemicals to make it more addictive so it is harder to stop, they are crack dealers and should be kept from getting another person addicited to thier drug. If you want to sell tobacco thats fine, but if you are selling laced tobacco, then you should be seen as what you are "a drug pusher"

[Wha?]

The easiest way is to slowly cut down your nicotine intake. Going cold turkey is going to make you feel horrible, making it all the more difficult to not pick up another cigarette and light it. Patches, gum, and inhalers all give you nicotine in regulated amounts, so if you drop one cig from your daily schedual every week, you won't feel as bad. Cold turkey would get you over the addiction faster, but it's pretty much the most painful thing you can do.

Smoking shouldn't be illegal, especially in a country that makes you pay for health care. However, places where the government pays for it, they should make a licence that you have to have to buy smokes, that way people who smoke have a waiver to sign, declaring they acknowledge the risks and must pay for their own treatment. That fixes a large amount of drain on the system, and would allow other things to be legalized if need be. Of course, it would only apply to people born after a certain date, so people brought up when smoking was thought to be perfectly alright would be exempt.

[[CAKE]anonymity]

Was listening to the radio today. I had a thought, for all you home owners that smoke, its really hard to sell your house because of it. In a fire the hardest thing to get rid of is the smoke damage. Your basically damaging your homes, but at a slower rate over an extended period of time.

Parents who smoke outside, like my mom used to, will inadvertently expose their children to nicotine. Less so then one who smokes inside the house, but more so then a smoker. Just something to think about.

DL has a good point, leave it up to corporate america to make money of the suffering of others.

Personally I'm surprised the miscellaneous, whiny "WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE?!?!?!" :( comment didnt appear earlier. Then to the ever expected "the next thing you know (replace with cute furry bunnies) will be banned. I'll play into your game, net. If smoking remains legal, then why not legalize all drugs so the government can tax it. I'll start in a turn in your books for heroin program. All the paper we can use to remake into crack pipes. The kids can learn while they destroy their synaptic pathways or their lungs.

[Guest]

Ya can't legalize those drugs however. The manufacturers will STILL keep on making them and won't be taxed.
The key is to make them legal and undercut the street dealers with government sponsored cheap substitutes.