Same-sex marriage

[Miagi]

I know there was another debate thread, but that was 2 years ago.. Let's see who's opinion changed. Or those who are still around. I moved the locked post so no one can "cheat".

Btw, this post spawned from Elton Johns marriage.
http://www.vadavaka.com/forums/index.php?a...st=0#entry48032

Same-sex right or wrong?

Same-sex marriage right or wrong?

Should government have a say?

[Miagi]

Might as well start..

Even though I strongly believe "partnering" with the same-sex is completely wrong, I still won't judge people for what they do and who they are. It's their life so if they want to be with another of the same-sex, that's entirely their choice.

Again, I think it's their choice, if they want to get married they should be able to without the interference of people or the government. I really don't even see the big deal with the problem of same-sex marriage... It doesn't affect others and it's mostly a status symbol. It's entirely a religion issue in my opinion. But then that throws out freedom of religion.

The funny thing is people may have a strong opinion on this issue until someone close either now or in the future turns out to be homosexual. I know I did when a friend did and I still talk to him.

[Gragoon]

I dont think that being homosexual is a problem and so isnt same-sex marriage. homosexuals might not be the majority of the earthlings but they are there and they are human so they should have the same rights every other human being has.
if someone notices that he is homesexual and comes out with it its much better than noticing it and keeping it as a secret. marriage is the official statement that you are homosexual so I think the marriage is an important way to show how you are and noone should be allowed to take this right away from you.

[Wha?]

There are two types of marriage: spiritual and civil. The spiritual union is the ceremony everybody has come to equate with marriage. Indeed, if you are religious, it's the one that matters, but it does no more than unify people in the eyes of that religious group; no rights are granted. Same-sex marriage, where legal, is a civil union, meaning that the couple is entitled to all the legal rights afforded those in wedlock. All it requires is filling out paperwork, so it's hard to imagine why people get upset about it.

As for homosexuals having rights, you have to consider them human in order for them to deserve human rights. Anybody who sees them as less than that will have no problem denying them all kinds of things. In fact, most of the inhumanity in history has been justified this way, especially genocides. Even the military--and yes, everybody's military--dehumanizes the enemy so they can be killed without crisis of conscience (and people wonder why an invasion force is so bad at peacekeeping).

Same-sex marriage has been legal in at least one European country for over ten years, and they haven't experienced any of the symptoms described by the opposition.

[_Acid_Head_]

In the modern world marriage has become more of a business contract than a spiritual union, how many people get married every day that have little religious beliefs or backgrounds? The original principles behind marriage no longer matter as much as they once did. That said, I don't see why any two people that love each other can't have it written on paper that they want to be together until death seperates them.

In my opinion, the only people that are against same-sex marriage are either homophobes, are afraid of the impact so many more couples getting married is going to have on the economy, or what impact it might have on laws that benefit traditionally married couples of opposite sexes. My guess is a very small and insignificant percentage (in the U.S.A. at least) actually care what the christian bible says how a marriage "should" be.

Either way, to make it fair for same-sex couples, they should recieve similar benefits as married couples. Yes, a new process would have to be put in place to make sure the couple has actually been together for a while, and they're not just full of shit, but this would mean *some* equality for them. How it is now, I feel homosexuals are being treated very unfairly when it comes to this.

[FreeFall]

Sooo, to basically repeat what has been said. I see no problem in same sex marriages or any same-sex relationship. Why should it matter what two people want to do with their own lives. As long as no one harms another living being, it shouldn't be an issue.

I can see it as being an issue for religious matters because it might not comply with the 'rules' (or whatever) of that religion. But imo, aside from the principles (kindness to others, etc etc) most of 'em teach, religion blows. but that's another debate.

If two people love each other and would like to marry then i say more power to them :P. It's their life so why should anyone else get to live it.

[Annatar]

In the modern world marriage has become more of a business contract than a spiritual union, how many people get married every day that have little religious beliefs or backgrounds? The original principles behind marriage no longer matter as much as they once did.

Where the hell did you get that idea from?? The rise in divorces does not necessarily mean that the sanctity of marriage has eroded. It just means that peoples ideas and motivations have changed to the point where they can admit when a marriage has failed rather than the more traditional staying together as a loveless couple. Marriage has changed, I'll give you that, with private ceremonies often being favoured over big churchy things, but should that really matter?

Nobodys actually arguing against same sex marriage at the moment, so i wont reiterate the points you guys have already made. Just a short little comment about that news article... it seemed to be very anti- house of lords. Now as much of a little anarchist that i am, i quite appreciate that at least a small part of our government can look further than the next election, and a lot of really dumb laws have been blocked by them despite being unelected. But thats waaaaay off-topic.

[_Acid_Head_]

Didn't marriage start out as a religious ceremony for everyone? Pre-marital sex is baaad and all that jazz. I didn't comment on divorces or anything like that, I'm just saying that getting married today is a lot different than getting married a century or more ago, basically because of how much more freedom women have, and no I'm not saying any of this is bad, on the contrary, it's great... but you can't deny the fact that marriage has much less to do with religion and more to do with laws having no ties to religion. At least that's how it is in America, seperation of church and government is awesome^_^

[Annatar]

Meh Ill give you that, seeing as how i tended to see churchs more as venues than any particular religious connotation. I guess my pov has always been on the spiritual side, bad word choice but im not sure what word to use, trying to say spiritual without saying religious. But at any rate, fair point.

That said i disagree with you on the concept of america having good separation of church and state:P

[_Acid_Head_]

well, extreme right wing conservatives sure as hell make it hard to keep them that way!

i see what you're saying really, there is a strong spiritual side and that's the only real word you can use for it, i'm just giving it my own lame vogon pov:Plol

[Annatar]

you're a vogon?? damn... the hitch hikers guide was real!

[g-boy]

Perhaps someday people will be treated like humans by others. Until then, we are forced to debate whether women should vote, blacks should go to school with whites, or gays can get married. I just find it amazing how little ###### marriage affects anyone negatively. You're really living in the wrong part of the world if you can't accept people for who they are, as long as they are good people.

[_Acid_Head_]

The only thing keeping civil marriages from being legal everywhere for everyone in the U.S. is the whole religion thing where it apparently says or implies somewhere in the bible(?) that it HAS to be between a man and a woman.

There is much worse being debated when it come's to peoples' most basic rights, like what a woman can do with her body (abortion debate), and seeing how this extreme right wing nutjob Alito is almost confirmed the swing vote judge in the supreme court, it's really not looking good for pro-choice supporters.