more presidential election debates

[Guest]

i hate it i mean think about it why you guys hate bush so much if we had a different president no one would take charge and start a war.

We need war to put ourselves in position and show other countries who is boss and still on the map.

All the other canadiates that want to be presidents would be friendly with the enemy and want to have a peace treaty.

Bush waited 7 months on the other countries to back him up and he said F*** it im going in and we caught sadaam. gfg.

[Guest]

debate time:o.

[FreeFall]

his sig was different when he posted this.. but aside from that i completely disagree with what you said...unless that was sarcasm..

[meatball`]

i hate it i mean think about it why you guys hate bush so much if we had a different president no one would take charge and start a war.

We need war to put ourselves in position and show other countries who is boss and still on the map.

All the other canadiates that want to be presidents would be friendly with the enemy and want to have a peace treaty.

Bush waited 7 months on the other countries to back him up and he said F*** it im going in and we caught sadaam. gfg.

My sig was different when I made this thread. It was this:


Trigun, do you think it's America's job to police the world? Do we have to go to war just to make a statement and say "Hey, we think we're the boss of the world, ph34r us or we will invade your country." Do you think we have to "Americanize" the world and spread democracy?

What Bush did was go to war to invade Iraq for their oil fields. Nothing but a war for money. He's just finishing off what his father did.

[meatball`]

debate time:o.

Oh it's on! :P

[Annatar]

hmm we need more ppl on the pro bush side.... otherwise wont be much of a debate

[Guest]

without the war the other countries would be like we are sissys i would have used the p word instead ok you got my point

and they would have kept attacking and attacking im glad what bush did since that has happen the US has had no attacks.

Terrorist like.

[FreeFall]

Do you realize how many people died so that america could feel like the "big man on campus". That just gives other countries all the more reason to attack the usa. You can't just have one country ruling the entire world living under one system and one belief. Who here remembers Hitler??

[Guest]

in order for power some sacrifices have to be made if i died i wouldnt know it cuz i would be dead. :x

well we have been doin it for years and years since 1876 so now what. or im sry if i got the date wrogn lol. the constitution thangy.

[Blazed]

Omg.....trigun you really must be young. We do not sacrifice American lives to make us feel big and strong. If we really did that, no one we be in our army. Name me one war that we fought for your reason. All the wars that i can remember us fighting was to stop bad things from happing. whether its freeing people, stopping tyranny and oppression , protecting our sercuity, etc. even though one or two we really didn't need to be there.



lol its a little funny, if we told the world we were going to attack iraq because we could, they would have laughed. The Mexican army could wiped them out. iraq was so weak after the iran war and the war with us back in 91.

[_Acid_Head_]

I'm not going to say going to war with Saddam was a bad thing, but do you really believe we (the U.S. government) did it for the right reasons?

I doubt it, but I could be just as wrong as anybody else.

[FreeFall]

lol its a little funny, if we told the world we were going to attack iraq because we could, they would have laughed. The Mexican army could wiped them out. iraq was so weak after the iran war and the war with us back in 91.

lol reminds me of a Bill Hicks act.

People said, "Uh-uh, Bill, Iraq had the fourth largest army in the world." Yeah, maybe, but you know what? After the first three largest armies, there's a real big f***ing drop-off, all right? The Hare Krishnas are the fifth largest army in the world, and they've already got our airports!

[Blazed]

I really think we went to iraq for the right reasons. We freed 300,000 iraq's, were going to install a democratic society, to protect our sercuity(to find WMDs).
Maybe the timing was wrong, but the war is good. I think no one thought for sure that it would turn into the front line in the war on terror....



who said iraq had the 4th biggist army?? thats a crock

[Guest]

k ill name you a war rodney king! haha

anyways yea you have a point blazed i agree with you.

[Annatar]

and they would have kept attacking and attacking im glad what bush did since that has happen the US has had no attacks.

Terrorist like.

On the other hand american soldiers are getting shot on a regular basis in places like najaf, quite often with al qaeda involved in some way (or supposedly). Bear in mind that the us do their utmost to prevent pictures of dead american soldiers from getting out.

And erm, blazed.... they havent found any wmds yet, and whats more pretty much the only people who have the ability to launch missiles from iraq to the us is, well, the us. Also its allies and russia. Maybe they coulda nuked saudi arabia or kuwait but that would stop them getting the oil which is a bit of a downer for them.

[Wha?]

If everybody takes what their governments say at face value, stuff like 2+2=5 starts happening. Their job is not to tell you the truth, and the people who have that job would rather stay close with the big sponsors, who are close with the politicians. So, for your sake, find a media outlet that doesn't have a dependancy on sponsors from your country (or a country which has such dependancy). The only way the emperor found out he didn't actually have new clothes were the words of one who wasn't afraid to be honest.

[FreeFall]

Their country has been bombed, homes and lives alike have been destroyed. Now I agree it is a good thing that they did catch Sadaam, I mean that guy is a megalomaniac to the most extreme use of the word. but there was no point to this war. There have been no weapons discovered, there is no real threat. There is a war on terrorism but who's the bad guy?

[_Acid_Head_]

I really think we went to iraq for the right reasons.  We freed 300,000 iraq's, were going to install a democratic society, to protect our sercuity(to find WMDs).
Maybe the timing was wrong, but the war is good.  I think no one thought for sure that it would turn into the front line in the war on terror....



who said iraq had the 4th biggist army??  thats a crock

Yeah talk about bad timing, right after 9/11? Iraq had absolutely NO CONNECTION with the attacks.

The point is simple, in both wars with Iraq there was no imminent threat, even though they told us there was, going to Iraq was a mistake because we never finished in Afghanistan and there has been almost no effort in looking for the real culprits, which are Osama and his lackeys. The biggest mistake was rushing to war with Iraq, right when Bush had the go-ahead, he went right for it, fudge international support to "defend our country" rofl.

The "BUT WE FREED THE PEOPLES OF IRAQ" bullshit is nothing more than an excuse, the timing for liberation of a dictatorship couldn't have come at a worst time, and you have to admit that. If we *really* wanted to free the Iraqi people, Bush's dad would've done it long ago, he had the chance and decided not to take it. He probably made the right decision too, since he probably knew what he was going to get himself into. I mean, just look at what's going on in Iraq today, the war isn't over, not really, and they (government officials) say it's just going to get worse.

edit: Again, I'm not saying it was necessarily a bad thing that we freed Iraq from Saddam's regime, I'm just saying this was not the time to do it.

[Blazed]

The point is simple, in both wars with Iraq there was no imminent threat, even though they told us there was,

in the first war there was no threat, we went to liberate Kuwait. If we had let saddam take Kuwait, he prolly would have tried for Israel and so on. In today’s war, our intelligence and those of Russia and the British, and one other one i forget. All said saddom had WMDs and he harbored terrorist. that is a very bad combo for some one like saddom. And if he really didn't have WMD's or anything to hide; he would have given full access to the UN inspectors or not have kicked them out in 98. He had every chance to comply before we attacked.

going to Iraq was a mistake because we never finished in Afghanistan and there has been almost no effort in looking for the real culprits, which are Osama and his lackeys. The biggest mistake was rushing to war with Iraq, right when Bush had the go-ahead, he went right for it, fudge international support to "defend our country" rofl.

Yeah I wish we did a little more Afghanistan too, but things are still going good there.(keep in mind, their will always be attacks even after Democracy has been set.) And we still have a lot of International support, its just the people that don't support it i.e fance, russia, is the support that would have hepled the most in saving american lives.

If we *really* wanted to free the Iraqi people, Bush's dad would've done it long ago, he had the chance and decided not to take it. He probably made the right decision too, since he probably knew what he was going to get himself into. I mean, just look at what's going on in Iraq today, the war isn't over, not really,

Different reasons for the first war, and that was a post 9/11 world too. different thinking was accuring back then....

[Blazed]

Different reasons for the first war, and that was a post 9/11 world too. different thinking was accuring back then....

oops thats a pre 9/11 world :wacko:

[meatball`]

If everybody takes what their governments say at face value, stuff like 2+2=5 starts happening. Their job is not to tell you the truth, and the people who have that job would rather stay close with the big sponsors, who are close with the politicians. So, for your sake, find a media outlet that doesn't have a dependancy on sponsors from your country (or a country which has such dependancy). The only way the emperor found out he didn't actually have new clothes were the words of one who wasn't afraid to be honest.

Wha is right. The for-profit media can tell you whatever they want. Just don't buy their BS. They try to sell this war as freedom. I stay away from the CNN's and the NPR's. Non-profit places like www.pacifica.org and www.democracynow.org are much better sources of media IMO.

Trigun:
Do you think America always has to be at war? Just to "prove" to other countries that we aren't sissies? So you're saying we should go to war for fun and profit, whenever we get bored.

Recently, the number of US deaths climbed to 1,000.
The number of Iraqi civilian deaths is anywhere from 12,721 to 14,751. (http://www.iraqbodycount.net/)

Just not worth it.

[Quickening]

If everybody takes what their governments say at face value, stuff like 2+2=5 starts happening. Their job is not to tell you the truth, and the people who have that job would rather stay close with the big sponsors, who are close with the politicians. So, for your sake, find a media outlet that doesn't have a dependancy on sponsors from your country (or a country which has such dependancy). The only way the emperor found out he didn't actually have new clothes were the words of one who wasn't afraid to be honest.

Wha is right. The for-profit media can tell you whatever they want. Just don't buy their BS. They try to sell this war as freedom. I stay away from the CNN's and the NPR's. Non-profit places like www.pacifica.org and www.democracynow.org are much better sources of media IMO.

Trigun:
Do you think America always has to be at war? Just to "prove" to other countries that we aren't sissies? So you're saying we should go to war for fun and profit, whenever we get bored.

Recently, the number of US deaths climbed to 1,000.
The number of Iraqi civilian deaths is anywhere from 12,721 to 14,751. (http://www.iraqbodycount.net/)

Just not worth it.

This is what I don't get. When they say OMG, 1000 deaths. Yeh I'm sorry that has happened, but those people knew what they were getting into when they enrolled into the army. And please compare the other wars and 1000 deaths looks great compared to those stats.

Also makes me damn happy that CBS and Dan Rather tried to swing the vote for Kerry, when they aired that 60minutes all about Bush lying on his time on duty. And then they get busted b/c the one article they based it on was fake. I can't wait tell CBS and Dan Rather have to apologize. Also now they are looking into if there was a push from Kerry or his people to air that on CBS. I always knew CBS sucked.

[fritoman]

I cant wait until after the election "if bush wins" to see all your bright shiny faces lining up for the draft, because we dont have enough young men and women to finish the wars we have started,we will also be starting more, Bush already gave us his list of countrys he wants to conquer.

[Quickening]

I doubt there will be a draft, seeing as we are pulling out a ton of our troops in countries such as Japan and Germany.

Also on the health plan stuff.
We are NOT a socialists country, we are a replublic. Go the Britain or something if you want all your medical stuff paid by the govt.

Just another little thing about 9/11 and hows its "Bushs fault".
Ever here of project bojinka? Probably not. Guess discovering osama's plans to crash 11 airliners and fly one into the CIA headquarters wasn't good enough a warning sign for Clinton. I'm sure changes to airport security were made after discovering this terrorist operation plot over the next 6 years of his administration.

How about the three times he missed the chance to nabbed or kill him under his administration?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4540958


Clearly 9-11 is bushes fault. :rolleyes:

[evil_admin]

Killing in the name of religion...another reason to go to church!

[fritoman]

Im just wondering...if there is a draft, will all the rich kids get to join the National Gaurd while all the poor kids go fight a war?

[Olbest]

War is not a solution.
The reason for war in Iraq was oil and money.

This is what I don't get.  When they say OMG, 1000 deaths.  Yeh I'm sorry that has happened, but those people knew what they were getting into when they enrolled into the army. by Quickening

Maybe people wouldn't have enrolled into the army if there had been no reason given to do it. The reason was that their country was going to be conquered and nobody wants his country to be conquered. What would you do if a country attacked the U.S.A.? Wouldn't you try to defense your country, your home?
And yea Quick we say OMG because the U.S. government could have solved the conflict without violence, without war. Bush knows that he made a mistake. You can't conquer a country and expect that people say "Welcome Americans, we waited so long for you, please conquer our land!" And if you do so, don't bomb a wedding and don't maltreat prisoners. It's typical for the united states that the military told CNN to keep back information about the torture on prisoners for two weeks.
US-Media make up reasons for torture in Iraq
How long is the government of the united states going to behave like that, killing friendship with other countries, conquer other countries, call countries names that don't support a crazy idea? Everybody who votes for Bush says that war is good, deaths of people are necessary to keep usa safe and friendship with other countries is not needed.
As a reminder: The war is not over, even if you don't want to believe it.

[Blazed]

Im just wondering...if there is a draft, will all the rich kids get to join the National Gaurd while all the poor kids go fight a war?

fritoman, thats is such a cheap shot its not even funny. :angry:

[Blazed]

Maybe people wouldn't have enrolled into the army if there had been no reason given to do it. The reason was that their country was going to be conquered and nobody wants his country to be conquered.

We went as liberators, not conquers. We are not taking over the land; we are giving it back to the Iraqis. A lot of people wanted saddam out of power, even our enemies. Iran hated saddam, Israel, Australia, the British, and Sweden etc.

And yea Quick we say OMG because the U.S. government could have solved the conflict without violence, without war. Bush knows that he made a mistake. You can't conquer a country and expect that people say "Welcome Americans, we waited so long for you, please conquer our land!" And if you do so, don't bomb a wedding and don't maltreat prisoners.

like I said before, Saddam had every chance to comply, he prolly thought France, Russia and Germany would bail them out.

And if he really didn't have WMD's or anything to hide; he would have given full access to the UN inspectors or not have kicked them out in 98. He had every chance to comply before we attacked.

A lot of the interviews that soldiers give that i have seen clam that Iraqis are glad we are there. Not just soldiers, Iraqis too and government and none government officials.

Everybody who votes for Bush says that war is good, deaths of people are necessary to keep usa safe and friendship with other countries is not needed.
As a reminder: The war is not over, even if you don't want to believe it.

I will vote for bush, even though war is not good, but necessary for us to be save. If we didn't attack now, we would have attacked them when they had there full arsenal of WMD's and that includes a nuclear bomb. Yeah your right, we shouldn't have attack them, we should have waited till they have all there powerful weapons to use against us and our allies, and to sell to terrorist....<_< sarcasm.

[Quickening]

Im just wondering...if there is a draft, will all the rich kids get to join the National Gaurd while all the poor kids go fight a war?

Usually the way not get drafted is show proof of enrollment to a college with good grades. At least thats how my Dad didn't get drafted to Vietnam.

The reason for war in Iraq was oil and money.

You do know that Canada is the US second supplier of oil after Saudi Arabia. That just makes me laugh seriously. In Saddam days, he pocketed the money from oil. The Iraqis never saw that money except when Saddam built a new palace. Saddam and his sons massed murdered thousands of Turkish Iraqis in the north. He still has the right to be in power?:huh:


Blazed, fellow Texan. I love you. :wub: :