When playing a CD becomes a privilege, not a right

[Gwarsbane]

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050...50922-5339.html

When playing a CD becomes a "privilege," not a right
9/22/2005 2:01:31 PM, by Ken "Caesar" Fisher

I've spent part of my tenure here at Ars trying to warn people about the encroaching affront to our culture being brought about at the behest of the entertainment industry. It has consistently been my position that technologies like "Digital Rights Management" are less about preventing piracy, and more about finding new ways to nickel-and-dime customers. Through DRM and "contracts" for content, fair use rights are being eroded.

Of course, the industry is trying to accomplish its objective by publicly lamenting piracy. If the public and "their" politicians believe that the entertainment industry is on the verge of collapse, they'll be much more likely to accept restrictions on use of content that they've paid for. For this reason, most industry talking heads keep their comments in check when talking about DRM schemes, but from time to time we've seen people truly speak their mind. Such is the case with Tommi Kyyrä, of IFPI Finland. Mr. Kyyrä told Tietokone (Finnish) that the ability to play CDs on computers is a "privilege," and that people who have problems with CDs laden with DRM should just buy new CD players.

"Now, we need to understand that listening to music on your computer is an extra privilege. Normally people listen to music on their car or through their home stereos," said Kyyrä. "If you are a Linux or Mac user, you should consider purchasing a regular CD player." (Translation via tigert.com)

The comments come in the context of a debate over copy-protected CDs. As we have previously reported, CDs with copy protection do not play on all CD players, although this is certainly not just limited to computer CD players. Some older players also won't play the discs, either.

Curiously, Mr. Kyyrä's inflammatory remarks have since been removed from the story (comparative screenshots).

More recently we've learned that the entertainment industry is embracing a content protection scheme that will effectively give them control over whether or not you can play high-definition optical discs on your computer. I recently covered Microsoft's position in all of this mess; if Microsoft wouldn't support HDCP, high-definition optical discs would be entirely off-limits on Windows computers. Supporting HDCP isn't a panacea, however.  Computers without secure video pathways will either degrade the quality of video displayed, or refuse to play them at all. The situation is rather complex, and I suggest checking out my coverage.

[smartass]

What a load of crap, cant use something that i pay for on my own stuff. Man i would like to meet the guy that came up with that idea!:D

[evil_admin]

This article was debated on Slashdot and was very revealing. While most of the RIAA and other executives don't talk about such things, this guy apparently speaks his mind.

But if you look at the Microsoft EULA when installing Windows and/or any of their applications, you are basically just 'using' the operating system and don't really own it.

This is the decade of the big companies sticking it to the consumer but I doubt it will end when the decade is over.

[Slasher186]

*sniffs* wow smells like a pile of......

[Miagi]

Meh, just don't pirate and you'll have nothing to worry about.

[Wha?]

I really don't know what to say; people are too stupid to use the power they have as consumers.

"I don't wanna wait 'til somebody offers something I want! I want to get shafted now and whine about it!"

Morons.

::PostScript::
That said, I will say that there are no binding agreements for purchase of a product or service, unless said conditions are clearly posted at places of sale, visible prior to purchase.

The responses on Slashdot were (for the most part) quite interesting. I hadn't thought about standards logos having terms of use. DRM would deny the use of a non-DRM logo (ie. CD, DVD, IEEE 1394, etc.). These logos are also copyright protected, meaning no imitation would be legal.

Canadian copyright law also explicitly allows personal use copies, and allows P2P-type sharing (Where people choose something of yours and get a a copy for themselves; you can't give copies out). There is also no sympathy for the CRIA (something like that), since they get a piece of the blank media pie.

I guess the moral of the story is live somewhere that has a majority you agree with, or vote properly. I'm not going to delve into proper voting here, seeing as this is in General Stuff.

[Gwarsbane]

Meh, just don't pirate and you'll have nothing to worry about.

This has nothing to do with pirating, this has to do with legally using a music CD you bought legally down in walmart or where ever, in your legally bought mac (or other computer brand) with its legal to use CD player.

Most of the DRM out there makes a macs CD drive freak out and locks the system. It won't play, it won't eject, there is no eject button. I'm not sure how people get it out but I do know the average user can't do that.

I don't know if you play music CDs in your computers CD drive or not. I do sometimes as I don't have any music only CD players any more. My last one that I had broke, the power button on the box broke and I can't fix it.. If they came out with DRM on a CD that I bought that basically screwed up my computer CD player to play music I legally bought, or if people want to argue it, music that I legally bought the right to listen to anytime I want on any legal piece of equipment that will play it then they are the ones in the wrong.

Its the exact same thing they are doing with the region coding really. They are telling people that they are not allowed to play a DVD that they legally bought just because it came from some other region in the world. They tell people that they also have to buy a new DVD player from that region. They are not allowed to buy a region free dvd player because they are suppose to be illegal (why I don't know, I also don't know why they bother with the region coding either). Its also illegal for people to use a region free program on their computers DVD player also. Again why shoud I have to buy a whole new DVD player to play a DVD I legally bought from somewhere else on the planet when I already legally own a DVD player?

[Gwarsbane]

Same topic, another link....

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/23/ma...buy_cd_players/

Music exec: quit whining and dump Mac, Linux
'Get a decent CD player', folks
By Tony Smith
Published Friday 23rd September 2005 19:19 GMT
Get breaking Internet news straight to your desktop - click here to find out how
Mac owners and anyone who runs the Linux operating system should quit whining about DRM and copy-protection technologies that are incompatible with their systems and "consider purchasing a regular CD player".

That's the message from Tommi Kyrrä, of the Finnish divison of the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI), local-language newssite Tieketone reports this week.

Inflammatory stuff, and comment that quickly provoked a such sufficiently large outcry among Mac and Linux users that Tieketone editors quickly expunged the more controversial part of Kyrrä's argument. You can see the two version side by side here. We're indebted to Ars Technica's Ken Fisher for pointing it out to the world.

Kyrrä's incendiary comment translates into English as:

"Now, we need to understand that listening to music on your computer is an extra privilege. Normally people listen to music on their car or through their home stereos... If you are a Linux or Mac user, you should consider purchasing a regular CD player."

The irony, that Linux was developed by a Finn, in Finland, appears lost on IFPI Finland's spokesman. And who is credited with providing the first solid alternative to illegal downloading from P2P sites? A Mac user...

Kyrrä's claim that listening to music on a computer is an "extra privilege" is too daft to warrant further comment - if you're going to penalise, say, Mac users, why not also penalise anyone who buys, say, a Panasonic CD player? But it also prompted a silly response from Ars' Ken.

DRM, he says, is an "encroaching affront to our culture being brought about at the behest of the entertainment industry". No, Ken, three-quarters of the rubbish put out on CD each month is an affront to culture. Don't get me wrong, I just bought a stack of Judas Priest downloads. I get a kick out of it, but that doesn't make it any less commercial pap. It's certainly not culture, and neither is half the stuff people listen to. Put it in its proper perspective, folks.

Modern music is ephemeral. It's ear candy. There are great records, but for every one that you can and do listen to year in, year out, there are hundreds more that aren't - albums that you could have quite easily left in the shop and your life would be no less rich than it is now.

So an album comes out and it's a copy-protected to the hilt and not supported by your preferred operating system - don't buy it. Ignore it - don't steal it - and spend your hard-earned on something else. Your life isn't suddenly going to become you don't own it.

And if you still can't cope, then we're sure IFPI can find something suitable for you... ®

[Miagi]

Meh, just don't pirate and you'll have nothing to worry about.

This has nothing to do with pirating, this has to do with legally using a music CD you bought legally down in walmart or where ever, in your legally bought mac (or other computer brand) with its legal to use CD player.

Most of the DRM out there makes a macs CD drive freak out and locks the system. It won't play, it won't eject, there is no eject button. I'm not sure how people get it out but I do know the average user can't do that.

I don't know if you play music CDs in your computers CD drive or not. I do sometimes as I don't have any music only CD players any more. My last one that I had broke, the power button on the box broke and I can't fix it.. If they came out with DRM on a CD that I bought that basically screwed up my computer CD player to play music I legally bought, or if people want to argue it, music that I legally bought the right to listen to anytime I want on any legal piece of equipment that will play it then they are the ones in the wrong.

Its the exact same thing they are doing with the region coding really. They are telling people that they are not allowed to play a DVD that they legally bought just because it came from some other region in the world. They tell people that they also have to buy a new DVD player from that region. They are not allowed to buy a region free dvd player because they are suppose to be illegal (why I don't know, I also don't know why they bother with the region coding either). Its also illegal for people to use a region free program on their computers DVD player also. Again why shoud I have to buy a whole new DVD player to play a DVD I legally bought from somewhere else on the planet when I already legally own a DVD player?

It does have everything to do with pirating as this is why there is DRM :P.

I'm saying if you have a legally purchased CD, then you have nothing to worry about. If the CD doesn't play then there's a flaw in the system in which they will just have to fix it. Usually how alpha/beta stuff works, hell even with released versions.

I doubt they will release anything that will cripple users into not being able to play cd's they purchased.
Otherwise their product will not be used and their sales will go to hell.

With that said I think my comment is justified.

Region encoding is for when they release a movie earlier in lets say the UK, they don't want people getting pirated copies of the UK movie in the US..

This kinda reminded me of hardware locks.:P
http://www.wyse.co.in/hardware-lock-for-computers.html

[Power and Glory]

I don't know if you play music CDs in your computers CD drive or not.  I do sometimes as I don't have any music only CD players any more.  My last one that I had broke, the power button on the box broke and I can't fix it..  If they came out with DRM on a CD that I bought that basically screwed up my computer CD player to play music I legally bought, or if people want to argue it, music that I legally bought the right to listen to anytime I want on any legal piece of equipment that will play it then they are the ones in the wrong.

How much does a simple CD Player cost $20 maybe $30? I guess I don't see the big deal. I don't see the large percentage of people who listen to music using their computer as their main source to play their cd's.


I know how much this gets to you Gwar since you are a big pirate yourself. Microsoft bugs you so much I don't get why you don't just switch to Linux or a Mac or just throw your PC out of the window. Complaining about it 24/7 isn't going to do anything. So deal with it.

[Gwarsbane]

You're right that a normal CD player is not too expensive (more then the 20 bucks you say though least in my area). But I shouldn't have buy one just to play music when I have a prefectly good one in my computer right now. Also my computer is hooked up good and has a nice sound system. Its not the best but its 100Xs better then a simple CD player. I would have to buy a 100 to 200 buck system to get the same quality sound as I get out of my computer.


Also most DRM messes up Macs bigtime. I'm not a mac fan and if I can help it I will never use one again in my life. But for those who do use them do you think its right for the DRM music companies to say you are not allowed to play music on your legally bought CD player thats in your legally bought computer, with all of its legally bought software? I don't believe it is.


And I can't switch to linux. Most of the major software I use don't work on linux. Wine (or what ever its name) is good but it still does not work with about 30% to 40% of the windows software out there. And no I'm not talking about games, I'm talking apps.


Here are the reasons piracy is growing in some cases. Prices for stuff is too high and many places are putting DRM into their CDs and software when its a known fact that its usually (99% of the time) broken within 24 hours. And its also a known fact that a large chunk of DRM cause problems for people that only buy stuff legally. DRM on music cds and software does not slow down people who are looking to get around it.

I recently seen (month or 2 back) a talk with sony I think it was who was putting new DRM onto some of their music CDs. They said that they knew that DRM does not work to stop people who actually know about this stuff. Its only there to stop people that don't know anything about it from making backups of the software and sharing it with friends.


DRM is driving people to pirate stuff. Poser 5 had CD protection software built into it. 90% of the people who bought it had problems with it right out of the box. No one that pirated it had problems with it. Then a patch was made, about 70% of the people still had problems with it. People who pirated it still didn't have problems. Then another patch came out which disabled the DRM and everyone who bought it could actually use it then. Still people who pirated it didn't have a problem using the software.

Another example, there was a home tax software package. It came with DRM that got installed when you installed the software. Problem was that if you had other software packages on your system that used the same DRM it screwed up all the other software packages. It screwed it up in a way that even reinstalling the other software it wouldn't do anything. The company was pummled with calls and e-mails yelling at them for screwing up the other software on their system and for the fact that they couldn't even use the tax software they bought. The company had to release a bunch of patches to to fix things. The next year their software did not include the DRM again. Their sales of their software suffered for a while.

DRM on music CDs is doing the same thing. People who have problems with the CD complain, but since the company don't release patchs for their music CDs people are stuck with the crap. So what do you think they do from then on? They look for CDs with no DRM on it, and if a group they like has a CD with DRM on it, they go and download the CD from the net so that they don't waste their money.


Also when I talk about DRM. I'm not talking about stuff like CD keys that most games have come with. I'm talking about stuff thats on a CD and automatically installed without you even being asked if you want it installed. I have no problems with trying to secure their software, but putting the protection on the CD/DVD is useless. While you know I am no fan of steam, it has potential. It was just not implimented right. It has certin things in it which should not be (in ability to change login name, inability to totally remove a CD key from an account on your own, the fact that in the EULA it says you are not allowed to resell the software at all). When buying software people should have to log onto the internet once to lock in their CD key, but they should not be forced to log in just to play single player (and no offline mode does not work for everyone, just look at their forums). Also the way blizzard did things with their CD key by having it checked everytime you go online to play is one of the best things to do. This kind of protection I don't mind.

The reason why most companies with DRM on their stuff say stuff like you "if you don't like something switch to a new OS or totally new computer system" is because the # of people effected is much smaller then the number of people uneffected. What you said above was basically screw the mac users. The onyl reason why you say that is because you are not a mac users and that mac users only make up about 10% of the computer population at best.

Again untill the majority of the people complain nothing will be done. and the large companies will continue paying off law makers to make stuff like playing a music CD in your computers CD player illegal. Least thats what its moving too. They have already removed your right to make a backup copy of your discs to avoid scratches on the original (one of the reasons I rip all my CDs to MP3 as soon as I get them, thats my way to back them up.)


And about me pirating things, I download single songs off of CDs. Why because I will not waste 15 to 20 bucks (plus 15% taxes) on a CD that I only like one song from. I can't buy them online cause I don't have a credit card and I don't want any of that DRM low quality crap. Also alot of the stuff I can't get online at the legal download stores. Even if I had a credit card the 90% of the stores are set up so that you can only buy the songs with a credit card from that country. If I try to buy the CDs online from like ebay 9 times out of 10 I might as well just buy the CD locally cause it would be cheaper. and the other 1 time out of 10 I might only save 2 or 3 bucks at best.

If I find a CD at the flea market for like 2 to 3 bucks. I'll try to talk the person down if there is only one song on there that I like. If not then it will just depend on how much money I have on my.



And yes I do keep complaining about this stuff, but its not just because it effects just me. It effects everyone and sooner or later the way things are going you will find that to use a computer you will have to have someone for a policing force looking over your shoulder while you do everything. Or you will have to let an outside agency scan your computer for illegal materials even time you goto use it. Yes these are extremes but they are moving that way. And if someone does not stand up for peoples rights then you lose them. Again example is the fair use laws and ability to make a backup of your CDs and DVDs to avoid scratches. Those rights are basically gone.

Heck for the people in Finland its now not even a right to use their computer CD player to listen to music they bought just because they are using MACs or Linux.

So in other words the enterainment companies can come along, give the law makers a ton of money (campagn cash, lavish dinners, expensive gifts and what not) to make laws that will do stuff like this for example "From now on only sony built CD players will be allowed legally to play sony CDs, anyone found playing a sony disc in a non-sony player will be fined." seriously they can do that. Would they get away with that, no not right now. But given time the can, will and are stipping away your rights to play music in what ever legally bought system you own.

Actually they already did this with DVD region code. legally you are not allowed to play a region 2 dvd disc in a region 1 dvd player more then 3 or 4 times before that DVD player stays as a region 2 player for good. You have to buy a region 2 dvd player to play it anytime without worry of lising the region 1 ability in your other DVD player. There are 7 DVD regions across the planet I think. Do you think its right that you should have to buy 7 different DVD players if you collect DVDs from around the world?

I could understand if it was a difference in hardware like trying to plug a north american power cord into a UK power socket. But the DVD region code was thought up by the MPAA. They say its to help combat piracy, but how does that combat piracy? Pirates just get a legal version of the DVD from what ever region they need and burn it. Done. All it does is force people to either buy more DVD players or buy more DVDs from that region. They are makign more money this way by forcing people to buy new stuff, when all they have to do and stop including the region code in the DVDs and DVD players.

But they won't because they know its raking in more money for them. Thats all DRM is about is getting them more money.

Yes earning money is ok, but there has to be a point where the law makers say "aren't you gouging people?" But that point will never come as long as that money is also flowing into the law makers pockets.


Course you are just going to ignore all this as you will just see it as me complaing some more. You just don't see that your rights are disapearing right infront of your eyes.