Sourcing Ricochet

[GRITS]

A lot of talk on both sides of the table so I thought I would start a poll and a place where we could hash out our feelings on the ricochet source topic.
The respect rules are the same in the 'debate forums' dont attack people, it is a DEBATE.

I do not understand 'source'. I can visually see a difference in the type of character and landscape in HL source vs HL original....is that all there is? Pretty graphics? maybe some special sounds? What is the all powerful "source engine" and what does it do?
Hopefully there are new fixes and they are not things we have already fixed. Some of them were a lot of work the first time, I would hate to see people go through that again.


topic made.....time to discuss :hide:

[{james}]

"I do not understand 'source'"

One of the many questions I get asked when making this mod is simply "What the hell is the point". In the FAQ section of the site I answered this question.
I will copy the answer here:

Q: Why create Ricochet for the Source engine ?

A: Ah this is a question I get asked many many times. When I first begun this modification I was pondering over this question myself "Will Ricochet work inside the Source engine ?" I was asking this question to myself when I had no team, all I could do was imagine, I had no idea if or how it would work. But the simple answer is it does, Ricochet inside the Source engine is much more fun than it was with the Goldsrc engine. And now we (The 3rd party developer) can expand the ideas of Ricochet to a new level with Source. So the answer to this question is we are creating Ricochet for the Source engine because:

1: The Ricochet concept plays well inside the Source multiplayer environment.
2: We can constantly expand and modify the game and receive feedback from the community.
3: The Source engine allows us to create ideas that where never really possible with GoldSrc.
4: We the 3rd Party developer are in control, we the community create, expand and modify ideas, we the community correct the mistakes, we the community make a game that we all enjoy.

I created this modification because I wanted to spark some interest back into an idea that was very unique and interesting and I hope that the community can help me and my team do this.



Just to finalize my point, what I have been doing for the past week or so is getting feedback from selected people who I like to call "Ricochet haters". I have taken several people I know, given them a copy of the game and told them to give me feedback on how it plays.

Here is one example:

Hey james,

I just looked at Ricochet Source and I'm very impressed. I was actually having fun playing against the bots =) The skybox looks sweet too. When you get back online on AIM send me a message. I want to talk to you more about this mod. Other than a coulple bugs with binding keys and etc it looks great. I got some ideas for the mod too that might actually be pretty good for the gameplay.

[GRITS]

I must preface this with two comments.....
1. I am a research scientist by trade so I need specific data sometimes in order to understand completely. Literally 'paint me a picture'
2. I am a noob when it comes to online gaming concepts in development. When you explain please treat me accordingly. :blsh:

Nope...... I still don't have a grasp on the concept. I don't need to know 'why' you are creating a ricosource I want to know 'what' it will do, what differences I will see.

I read the FAQ on the source website and it told me nothing about what 'source' does. This is the reason I posted the question here. I am a novice when it comes to development, please explain in layman’s terms what I can expect from a ricosource game.

We have had bots for a couple years now on evil_admins servers and yeah they are fun...they do not define what source is though.

1: The Ricochet concept plays well inside the Source multiplayer environment.

I have no idea what that means because I don’t know what a 'source multiplayer environment' is.
Does it look different? Play different? what defines this environment?

2: We can constantly expand and modify the game and receive feedback from the community.

The developers in the community have been doing this for over 2 years now so this does not define source.

3: The Source engine allows us to create ideas that where never really possible with GoldSrc.

ok this might be where the answer lies.......what kind of ideas? I know the porting through to the bottom of the platforms to play upside down, defying gravity.....that one is new to me....is that something that is unique to sourcing?

4: We the 3rd Party developer are in control, we the community create, expand and modify ideas, we the community correct the mistakes, we the community make a game that we all enjoy

Since the release of the code the Ricochet community developers have been doing this in a 'non source environment'.

Please explain.....What exactly does source do? and why is there so much hubbub about it?

[8-up]

It's just prettier graphics and improved physics.

The characters might double over when hit in the belly with a push disc.
They might "trip" when hit in the feet.
Pads may bob a bit from the weight of the characters standing on them.

Other than that kind of stuff, I can't see any other improvements that couldn't be done in 1.6.

Rico: Source may be a fun idea, but I don't think there would be much point in doing it...unless the developers just want to say "Look what I did."

I guess the tripping thing wouldn't work with rico...the push disc to the feet would be worthless at times...
because just falling on your face onto the platform might be humorous the first couple times, but not worth a "kill"...maybe an "ow you just brokteded my nose!" but nothing like falling into an abyss screaming and flailing your arms about while everything around you spins in a purple and black soup.

[Miagi]

Source just gives developers more control over their game and has powerful 'features'. With the physics and modeling possibilities, it can make the mod a little realistic.


To me, it's all about gameplay. I don't care what it looks like or how simple it is. Ricochet is a fast paced game that is all about beating opponents with a push disc or decap disc.

I don't see why people who already don't like ricochet 1.6 will like source since the gamplay 'concept' is still the same, but it may look pretty.

It would kind of be like remaking pong. How?! You can't, you keep the same concept but make it prettier. Although some change the original idea and add crap.

Either way, if your taking the time to develop ricochet:source, I'll still give it a try.

I see you have a DM teamplay mode... Did you ever try the team DM mode we created a few months ago? If you weren't part of this community, you would probably never know that we developed that along with a bunch of other things listed in this thread http://www.vadavaka.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4377 and within the programming forums. Probably will have my dm last man standing mode coming out soon.

[GRITS]

Just to finalize my point, what I have been doing for the past week or so is getting feedback from selected people who I like to call "Ricochet haters". I have taken several people I know, given them a copy of the game and told them to give me feedback on how it plays.

Im not sure giving it to "Ricochet haters" is the best form for feedback, maybe give it to some diehard pros that love the game and see how it is accepted from thier more informed point of view. There are people in the community that have been playing since the inception of the game and changing from Won to Steam was traumatic.:lol:

Like someone said the 'jump around shooting disk" game play is not going to change and the people who hate that concept are going to hate the concept no matter if it is 'source' or not.

Getting the faithful to accept it may be the true challenge to Ricosource:)


and thanks guys for the layman's term explanation, I think I know better what it will be like and can hardly wait to see the actual changes

[8-up]

I'd try it just to see the dude double over when hit in the gut with a push disc.


As a matter of fact, I already saw it happen since I just finished final coding for ricochet source about 45 minutes ago.

[Power and Glory]

Yeah i think it would be best giving people who have played it regularly over the past 4+ years a try if you want good input. Rico was always a love it or hate it type of game so I don't think giving it to Rico haters would provide decent feedback if the gameplay is the same.

I'm also curious on your mod team's Rico playing experience. I ask that cause unless you played alot of it especially arena to learn the jumps I wonder what your motives are. Are you doing it cause you like the game or because you didn't and what to make it into your own version?

Also what is Valve's take on this? Did they give you permission to do this since it is their game to begin with? Just curious there.

[SkaveRat]

Also what is Valve's take on this? Did they give you permission to do this since it is their game to begin with? Just curious there.

We got fully permission and support of the VALVe RicoClassic team. Afaik James sent them a copy of RicoSource a few days ago. He can more about this

[fritoman]

CSS has a mod that when you shoot someone or something they fly 20 or 30 feet before landing in a crumpled heap, that would be pretty sweet in rico:P I have always loved the hldm map crossfire when it was converted for rico and with the mod I just mentioned first it would be a blast:thumb:

and with source couldnt you add hit points to the model so that if you were hit with a push disc but still stayed on the pad you would lose some life, or if you were cut in the leg with a decap disc you would start bleeding all over the place and lose a lot of health?

I guess what I am saying also is ADD THE RED PIXELS!!!!!!!

[SkaveRat]

CSS has a mod that when you shoot someone or something they fly 20 or 30 feet before landing in a crumpled heap, that would be pretty sweet in rico:P I have always loved the hldm map crossfire when it was converted for rico and with the mod I just mentioned first it would be a blast:thumb:

and with source couldnt you add hit points to the model so that if you were hit with a push disc but still stayed on the pad you would lose some life, or if you were cut in the leg with a decap disc you would start bleeding all over the place and lose a lot of health?

I guess what I am saying also is ADD THE RED PIXELS!!!!!!!

we will not change the basic concept like only decap etc. - And definitly no health points.

But there will be ragdolls. Decap'ed player models falling in ragdolls... hm. I always liked the concept of it, and it will look cool;)

Red pixels...hm. We got red platforms. Does that count? :rolleyes:;D

[8-up]

Red pixels...hm. We got red platforms. Does that count? :rolleyes:;D

He wants blood...and lots of it.

and don't decap if the disc hits the feet....that would be sub-lame. chop off the feet...
or cut the body in half if the disc hits the gut.

[fritoman]

CSS has a mod that when you shoot someone or something they fly 20 or 30 feet before landing in a crumpled heap, that would be pretty sweet in rico:P I have always loved the hldm map crossfire when it was converted for rico and with the mod I just mentioned first it would be a blast:thumb:

and with source couldnt you add hit points to the model so that if you were hit with a push disc but still stayed on the pad you would lose some life, or if you were cut in the leg with a decap disc you would start bleeding all over the place and lose a lot of health?

I guess what I am saying also is ADD THE RED PIXELS!!!!!!!

we will not change the basic concept like only decap etc. - And definitly no health points.

But there will be ragdolls. Decap'ed player models falling in ragdolls... hm. I always liked the concept of it, and it will look cool;)

Red pixels...hm. We got red platforms. Does that count? :rolleyes:;D

I am not asking to modify the arena map or DM maps with the hit points or (bodys flying 20 feets from impact) but with the hldm maps if that ever takes place. and yeah 8 who the hell ever heard of cutting someones head off with out any blood...I know from my experience that......wait thats another story

[Pique]

I think i still have the crossfire and stalkyard source files. I know i have the gasworks one that i stopped working on. Youd have to wait till early january for them though, i wont be back 'till then.

Defy gravity concept sounds cool. Im just an arena fan, thats what i love about the game, the duelling mode. Maybe source could somehow expand on this idea but i have no idea what it could add.

Good luck with the porting.

[FreeFall]

an ULTIMATE ultimate frisbee?

[SkaveRat]

an ULTIMATE ultimate frisbee?

hmm...