arena map layout

[Pique]

acids post got me thinking of new arena map ideas and i thought of an extremly simple one that i must have overlooked before

now this is in paint and with a wheel mouse so bear with me

as you can see its basically arena with the middle pad roated 90 degrees...i think this will completly change the gameplay just like that but if you add in those bumpers it makes it even more challenging (if you align them right) and makes it more "ricochet". Those red and green lines are teleporters that would would teleport in the direction of where the arrow is pointing...these would be raised above about the same height as you are in mid jump for a "disc to dull the razor":D And of course everything would be more geometrically sound than in the drawing.

Just some ideas...im having computer troubles here and im lucky that i can even get on right now otherwise that would be my new school night project, if anyone feels like giving it a try go for it. Im still trying to finalize another layout.

[Reciprocity]

goodness, even the mappers are out to get me. :ph34r:

[_Acid_Head_]

Try to make the map for both "ricochet" players like Tizod and jumpers like myself and other pros. I personally don't like using bumpers too much.

[Gragoon]

cool idea man!

but plaese try to make sure that it is like in arena: u can reach all pads with max. 2 jumps.
if u want i could e-mail u some ideas :)






ps: i dont know how to create a map but i'll try to help as well as possible cuz i want to play a new map with the same level like rc_arena^_^

[FreeFall]

i think that'd be a good idea for a map..i can already see possible jumps! those added bumpers may or may not be good though..but that's only 1 players opinion!

[_Acid_Head_]

Here's a modified version of your idea and an idea of my own. Tell me what you think, if you like it, I have many more, and I can already see my errors in these drawings, so I will re-do them if people like them. Designing a GOOD 1v1 map is HARD

[_Acid_Head_]

Couldn't attach second image in first post, here's one of my many ideas (which actually isn't perfect yet):

edit: there are many possibilities in this map, hope you can see them.

[GRITS]

all one level acid?

[Pique]

I like that second idea acid...and im gonna try to start it:D. Gotta see if i can get worl...er....Valve hammer editor on here. then i need the fgd and the wad...hmm....i think i have a ricochet.wad on my site.

[Power and Glory]

I like the second one myself. I'm already thinking of jump possibilities but I'm sure your way ahead of me on that.

[_Acid_Head_]

They're two different maps, GRITS.

The problem with Pique's map is that it's too big, a good 1v1 needs to be small, have disk teleporters in the right places to prevent people from camping (or keep them on their toes), and obviously have well thought out spaces between pads for jump tricks. The bumpers have to be in specific places not only to prevent people from jumping onto other pads too easily but to ricochet teleported disks and any other disks that are placed well.

Like I said, the map had a few errors, here's a numbered version with detail. Just a heads up, for this map to turn out perfectly you might have to make more than one version, it's not gonna be easy but I personally think it's going to be worth it in the end.

Basics:

The disk teleporters marked #1 and #2 are meant to transport disks to the outsideish area of the #3 pads, leaving just enough room to stand away from its path at the edge. Bumpers #5 are supposed to ricochet the traveling disks from the first two teleporters to the area closer to the arrows on #3 pads.

If you didn't notice, or thought it was an error on my part, #4 pads are smaller than the rest, a good deal smaller, the reason for this is obvious, they're not supposed to be very safe. #3 disk teleporters (crap I numbered two things #3) transport disks straight down the middle on #4 pads, meaning people will have to stand on either edge to avoid being hit. To make up for this, the #3 teleporter is rather small, in the middle of bumper #8, which covers the small pads entirely from the middle.

Pad #9 is SLIGHTLY bigger than #6 pads, #7 bumpers are meant to be small enough to be able to shoot a disk just barely touching the arrows on #6 pads. #6 pads are relative to the size of #3 pads (meant to be about the size of regular rc_arena pads) I didn't add them, but you could add SMALL single bumpers on either side behind #6 pads to be able to ricochet from the middle pad to the #6 pads. Keep in mind not to interfere with any possible jumps.

Trick Jumps:

note: If I say jump from #x to #y, I also mean you can jump from #y to #x.

#3 to #6 (both arrows)
#4 to #3
#6 to #9
#9 to #4

Probably won't all work, I'm really not sure, the map layout may need a lot of tweaking.

I encourage anyone who wants to to add ideas to my map, change the layout, whatever you feel like. Just put some thought into it.

[Pique]

blah mapping isn´t fun anymore. I tried to start your layout acid. I just cant get a good arrow and its just not interesting to try anymore. This comp is extremly slow and with a wheel mouse its extremly frustrating. Someone else want a shot at it you will be extremly surprised to how easy mapping is. If im the only one willing to work on a new map layout dont expect it for a couple months. Ill prolly add 1 thing every now and then so itll take a while. And so far my arrows look like shit :/ none are even at all and im still wondering how the original maps made their arrows so damn good and straight....or wait...are the originals straight? so that the arrow pointed to where the info_target is? the target is right in the middle of all the pads so are the arrows lined up right or are they just made to look good and in the general direction?

O and in defense of my original design acid...its not big...it would be the same size as arena with the same jumps just tweaked a litle a bit...nothing too big or too small. you have to keep in mind you dont want your jumps too small or you jump slow and are easy to hit. one example would be a trick jump from a back center pad onto the middle pad in arena, its a weak jump cause its close together and so the trick jump is slow and weak. and also bumpers wont block your jumping like the bumpers between the center and outside pads of arena unless you put a clip brush over them. And teleporters aren´t great because they can only hit you in ONE spot. a well place bumper can hit you anwhere on the pad, especially if you have a setup to be hit from behind.

[Wha?]

I'll try to put together a .zip of my rico brushes and miscellaneous statistics. Save people some time and frustration.

Arrows do point directly at the centre of their target pads, but they don't have to. If they aren't positioned at 45° increments, it gets a little interesting trying to place them flush with the pad.

[_Acid_Head_]

Teach me the basics of mapping and I'll do it. I tried to do make a map like 6 months ago, it was very frustrating.

[Wha?]

VHE (Valve Hammer Editor) has tutorials on basic mapping under help. This shows how to set up all the options for VHE.

Some tools:
Zoner's Half-Life Tools - Custom Build (better compile tools)
ZHLT Compile GUI (better way to compile)
BSPtwoMAP (a decompiler, to let you poke around inside existing maps)
Wally (texture editor)

Some good reference sites:
The Handy Vandal's Almanac
Valve Editing Resource Center
-Valve's info on rico entites (all valve game entities are listed in there too, very handy)
-Wadinclude (if you use the compile GUI, only the bit about what -wadinclude is, is important)
Huge list of problems and solutions.

If you want something to get downloaded with the map (models, sounds, new sky textures), you have to make a plain-text file with the same name as the map, and a .res extension. Here's what I have in rc_clockwise.res:

Code:

// .\rc_clockwise.res - created by desNotes--er, I mean Wha?... Who only sort of ripped off desNotes to make this work.

// .res entries:

maps/rc_clockwise.res


gfx/env/csidbk.bmp
gfx/env/csidbk.tga
gfx/env/csiddn.bmp
gfx/env/csiddn.tga
gfx/env/csidft.bmp
gfx/env/csidft.tga
gfx/env/csidlf.bmp
gfx/env/csidlf.tga
gfx/env/csidrt.bmp
gfx/env/csidrt.tga
gfx/env/csidup.bmp
gfx/env/csidup.tga

Regardless of what you hear about skyboxes being evil, don't listen. A rico map has to be in one; no way around it. However, the maps are small enough it doesn't matter. Just remember a trigger_discreturn above and below the map. You'll also need an info_ricochet somewhere, so the map'll show up in the create server dialogue.

Vital stats for Ricochet (most of this is done for you in the .zip):
Pads:
World Component: 20 sided cylinder, 16 units thick, 256 accross.
Scale the trim_* textures (the stripe on the side) to X = 6.00, this keeps it from blurring when viewed at an angle.
Entity Component: info_target dead centre (marked by an 'x') on the top surface, info_player_deathmatch centred but bottom edge is 48 units above top pad surface, each additional one's bottom edge is 16 above the top of the previous (stacked for smaller dm maps).
NOTE: For multi-level maps, the distance between the top surface of one pad, and the bottom of the next higer level's is 240 units.

Jumps:
World Component: Half a square-based pyramid, 17 units thick (the extra one sticks up above the pad), 38 from base to tip, 80 wide.
Entity Component: Rectangular-prismatic trigger_jump, placed such that it sits on the jump, with one side centred on the vertex. 120 units long, 16 wide, and 8 thick.
Make sure both +*square textures are at the same stage as the +*arrow, and are facing the right way. (one needs to be backwards [make X scale negative], or rotated 180 degrees)

Bounces:
A bounce is a free-floating jump.
World Component: Square-based pyramid, 95 units high, 48 from base to tip, and 110 wide.
Entity Component: Rectangular-prismatic trigger_jump 136 units wide, 23 deep, and 96 units high (extra over top). Bottom edge lines up with that of arrow, sits centered on tip (with no overlap).

Interior Rails:
Placed between pads on the same level.
World Component: Rectangular prism as long as needed, 8 units wide, and 16 high. The texture strip1a is used for the metallic sheen look on the top/bottom, but it needs to be rotated and shifted for the effect to work. Just do it to taste. Top surface 48 units above top of pads.
Entity Component: Rectangular prismatic trigger_push (direction should be perpendicular to path, and flat [ie. z = 0]. Speed 100) as long and wide as the bottom half, 8 units high. Placed exactly over the bottom, no gap.

Exterior Rails:
Used to border map levels.
World Component: Exactly the same as above, but 16 units wide.
Entity Component: Also exactly the same, but 16 wide.

Valve seems to use clipping brushes to prevent cakewalking on all rails which don't have a jump path over them. This is why you can stall camp on rc_deathmatch, and why you can't hop over the 'V' on arena. It isn't necessary to prevent camping, as the player cannot shoot anyone on a pad from a rail, but the players on the pads can shoot the cakewalker. Mapper's call.

In rico_prefabs.zip, I've included one of everything (except for the little four-square thing, and a teleporter haven't made those yet :\ ), so you shouldn't need to manually create anything. Some of the things are grouped, so don't drive yourself nuts trying to select an individual thing without ungrouping first. I've also included the full ricochet.wad, since not everybody has it, and there are a few more textures to choose from.

[[CAKE]anonymity]

Well you guys know I'll put whatever map on the server. These ones actually look pretty good.

[_Acid_Head_]

Looks like Ishboo (just recently returned to Ricochet) is willing to take over this project (making the second map). He says he's a good mapper, and I know he is a great jumper/decent shooter, so there's no reason for me not to hand it over to this guy.

Look forward to it, Ishboo!:)I will totally test it out with you when you're done/near completion.

edit: btw, he offered, I didn't force it onto him:P

[Ishboo]

Map is mostly done now, I will release it on Tuesday. For now I got a couple questions.

1. What is the name of the sky map in ricochet
2. What are a couple good names for the map... I was thinking rc_acidarena
3. If a player was to jump into #3 teleporters should he fall right away or should he be placed back on the #4 pad on the opposite side.
4. Where do you think would be the best spots to respawn.

Also I decided not to clip the rails because they were obstructing a jump I added in-between bumpers #5 that land on the far #6 pads.

[_Acid_Head_]

Think we could test it out a bit together, Ishboo?

I don't like the idea of people using teleporters to get across the map, I only want those in for disks, one thing I didn't like about user2 was people exploiting the teleporters to get across the map.

#6 pads seem like the best place to spawn, no?

The name is up to you, you made it, acidarena would be cool^_^but it's all up to you, It's just my concept.

edit: btw, you map really fast, wow.

[Gragoon]

i would dislike "teleporter moving" too(for players)..

best spawnpoints: 3 or 6 i guess

i'm looking forward to it:thumb:

[Ishboo]

Yeah #6 pads seem the best to me also. And I was just going to release a beta version that is a complete map, and in a week if any problems may come up I can release a final version with the new user input. I figure the more opinions the better; unless you guys think it might be to confusing or don't like the idea of downloading it twice. As for the teleport jumping I have it setup for u to fall the second you hit it, just figured I would ask because I can place a player any where on the map separate from where the discs go.

[Pique]

just figured I would ask because I can place a player any where on the map separate from where the discs go.

howd you do that? multiple teleporters or with the use of the no clients flag? Or is the disc considered a pushable?

and the skymap is just disc

[Ishboo]

Well I noticed after I made the first teleporter that when a disc is teleported it disappears but the sprite of the trail that follows it does not. Which with the configuration of this map was very annoying. So I redirected the disc to a teleport below it and the skybox and shoot over to the bottom of the other teleporter, into yet another teleporter and back up and out at the correct spot. It effectively removed the trail sprite all together and left a very small delay. So if some one where to jump into the teleport it would send him down below the sky box (into another sky box, so the entities don't leak the map) from this point I put a trigger fall. Or I could place another teleport that the player could fall into and place him where ever.

[_Acid_Head_]

*nods dumbly*

[RushJet1]

this sounds more awesome as the days go by... can't wait to play it

[Gragoon]

i can't wait too :)

[Squish]

I finally figured out a way to beat recip. here it is!
P.S.

The line around his spawn is the barrier to block all his shots, the rest of the world platform is just a bit lower so they can shoot at his feet.

[Ishboo]

Sorry it took so long guys, but I figured I would add in all the cool beam effects; it really put the final touch on the map.
I have no idea what the sky map is called so for the sky to look right you must first be in a map with the correct sky and then change the map.
hehe i had no one to test with (working evenings) so im not sure if the arena version even works right, so i added a single player version.
Also for all you mappers out there I noticed that 1 out of 10 discs would fly right threw a teleport, so I doubled up all of mine and it seems to be more like 1 out of 100 now.

Anyways enjoy the map guys

[_Acid_Head_]

The map design looks perfect. But could you make the jumps higher/slower? Every jump seems really shallow and fast. I don't want jumps to be really high/slow, just enough so it feels like arena.

Also, I think someone said the name of the sky is "disc"

[Ishboo]

I noticed that as well, I kinda figured that was the base jump height, the speed is directly effected by the height. It could be that the map is spaced out a little further than normal arena. hehe I didn't notice the post about the sky map... oh well it will be perfect by next Tuesday.