The USA Patriot Act

[RuNnInG_wIth_ScISsOrS]

You are truly a fool if you believe that the government wasn't doing these things long before the Patriot act. There is always some political/federal loophole out there that will keep a guilty person on the streets. Take the neutrality acts, this doesn't keep anyone from performing assasinations, but what it does do is limit the government to the most EXTREME circumstances. They're not going to take the chance to do such a thing on a whim if they can get called on it. Unfortunately, sometimes a problem needs to just go away, even if the best solution isn't the morally right one.

However, detaining an individual indefinitely for only the suspicion of being a terrorist is ridiculous. I don't care if they monitor me in my home while I'm performing acts that no sane person would like to see, but a permenant detainment merely on a suspicion? This strangely reminds me of 1984. Pix, while all the amazing Republicans of the world claim that the liberals aren't fighting for their freedom by not supporting the war in Iraq. They still love to criticize the liberals for not supporting the patriot act, for fighting this abomination. I personally do not want to live in a Castro Cuban regime where I can be detained for "planning a terrorist attack/planning an assasination attempt/etc etc." Just ask Chanes de Amas(sp?) how he felt about sitting in jail for 30 god damn years. All because he was "suspected" of multiple assasination attempts.

I thought in this country of ours we were innocent until proven guilty. Patriotism didn't use to mean putting a flag on your car and calling the president and his administration infallible. If things were so, communists would be ruling the world and Reaganomics would actually work. Your scenario about someone buying $300 dollars worth of groceries with food stamps. Unless everyone else in the line was doing the same, you're just looking at a stereotypical extreme, and EVERYONE has one of those. In case you haven't noticed inflation is rising faster than current wages. I'm sorry that you've been successful in life Pix, obviously that means helping someone out every once in a while is below you. How about instead of asking that guy on the corner to come rake your leaves, you give him the phone number to a local liquor store hiring manual labor. I wouldn't come rake your leaves either, that is simply degrading and stupid. While you sit on your lawn chair and tell me you'll give me five dollars for doing an excellent job, I'll realize I just wasted an hour of my time raking your leaves with no long term benefits. Do you think those people out in the middle of the freeway selling oranges want to be out there, and are living off luxurious welfare? While you live in Whitesville, Suburbia and claim that all the poor of the world are merely theiving, blood-sucking leeches, I'll be watching Wal-mart put everyone out of business. The poor obviously love being just that, poor. On the immigration issue, equal work equals equal pay, get over your elitest selves.

[Guest]

...and as long as that guy feels he is too good to do ANY labor...he can kiss my ass. I'm sorry....is he entitled to
health benefits with the raking job to make it less 'humiliating'? Just because it is felt humiliating or degrading by some
doesn't make it a non job. Everyone starts at the bottom and works their way up in ANYTHING. You fall off the ladder,
you start climing it again...you don't sit your fat ass on the couch and say...I'm not getting back on that ladder unless
I can start up where I was....that's egotistical and lazy. Nobody wants to work for anything anymore. They all want it
given to them.

Yes I do help out unfortunate people...kids...abused kids who live in shelters...I gave $500 dollars to 7 kids last month.


Last time I looked the econ was on the rise. What is unemployment right now??? 5% or something. Boo Hoo....I'n my eye
that's 95% employed....sounds good to me compared to other countries.

On immigration, NO equal work does NOT equal equal wages. NOT when the one doing the equal work is NOT paying Social Security
taxes or ANY taxes like the citizen is and they are sending most of the cash they make back across the border to family. Let em
come and work...just make them experience the grace of taxing.

[[CAKE]anonymity]

First off, i'd just like to say my mom is working on a grocery store now, the money she makes is going towards me and my sisters college education. She went from a 6 figure job to 6 bucks an hour. If it wasnt for my dads job we could not buy food nor pay the bills. This is why people look for a similar type of job to what they were doing, so they can continue to feed their families, 6 dollars an hour is not enough to feed a family. You also dont get welfare if your makeing 6 dollars an hour.

You say that people abuse the welfare system... I also know its quite hard to get it beacuse of the worry that people abuse it. Unemployment insurance only covers 40 days. I had to give my parents money because they were worried they weren't going to have enough for food. This is with all the "abusing" of the welfare and unemployment system my parents did.

[Wha?]

A simple question to bring things into perspective.

Is the purpose of government to protect individual rights, or to distribute wealth?

[Guest]

whoa whoa whoa!!!

I think we have our countries mixed up!!!

In the US it is VERY easy to abuse the welfare system. My first job was a cashier at a food market when i was 16.
I remember vividly all the food stamp abuse that occurred. This wasn't just some blind stereotype i was casting either.
My wife could go RIGHT NOW down to The Dept. of Health and Human Services on Jackson Avenue and say I had left
her for another woman and they would put her on welfare with food stamps TODAY. They don't even check
to see how much she makes.

The distribution of wealth is NOT the way of Capitalist governments...that is the way of socialist governments...like France.
If this were the case...then you are saying that it is the right of every individual to be entitled to money??? I hope not.
It is the right of every individual to be responsible and TRY to get income by working a job. Anyone ever worked 2 jobs???
I have. It sucks...but it was my responsibility to provide for my family any way i could. That led me to work 2 shitty jobs at
one time. I didn't sit on my ass and cry about not having what everyone else did. I didn't say someone give me a handout.
I didn't say the government owes me for my misery. NO...I got out and did what i had to do. I protected MY individual rights
by doing what was to be done.

To be honest...I respect your mom 100% for tightening up the belt and working that job. That's a 'work ethic'. Doesn't it make
you angry to see people NOT work the same jobs because they think they are too good to do it; and they get the same money
free from the govt? Welfare eligibility is dependent on what income you bring in over the year. I believe it is like under so many
thousand per year in US.

What is all this 'abusing' you are talking about with your parents?? Sounds like your parents did what thousands of people NEED to do
to get back up and going. They honestly worked for your survival and that is commendable. I think you misinterpeted something I said.

[[CAKE]anonymity]

I meant it in a sarcastic manner because they did not abuse the system. From my previous expericances I thought that Canada did not have food stamps, I confirmed this with my parents. There are no food stamps in Canada. Why? I have no idea. What I do know is how much the government offers in welfare (about 30 000 dollars a year) the poverty line is about 35 000. This is in Canada, i cannot speak for the states, but welfare is not a lot. According to the poverty line, welfare is not enough to survive on. This is in Canada, I can't speak for the states, but i can say that it is probably quite similar. There might even be more abuse of it because our unemployment rate is about 8 or 9%. To be perfeclty honest I am not at all upset that someone gets money for apparently doing nothing. I know that I might lose my job, hit a series of bad luck which i can not control and eventually get tossed out on to the street. I am glad that there is a system in place to help me get back on my feet.

I dont know if you thought about this, but how do you actually get a job? You apply for one with a resume and hope to get called for an interview. You go to the interview wearing a suit and tie, and try to look as credible as possible. If you go in looking like a homeless person, will you get the job? Can you even be contacting to get the job? No matter the job, there is always an interview, some jobs have several interviews. You can do it through a job finding agency but how will they contact you? They are a buisness, as cold hearted as the one that laid you off. Would they waste their time on you? They get paid by takeing a percentage of your pay for awhlie, will they spend time finding you a job? One last question, does anyone actually know a homeless person who has climbed up from the streets to make an honest liveing?

[Wha?]

Welfare is to keep people from being homeless if they lose gainful employment, not sure if you can use it if you're homeless.